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Second Skycatcher crash
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
Second Skycatcher crash
They lost one to spin testing and made the tail larger. Now another crashed, but they're claiming it a "success" story for the parachute deployment. I'd rather have a 150.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Re: Second Skycatcher crash
Helicopter takeoff accident: (waiting for Bruce's input on this)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3idQKi5 ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3idQKi5 ... re=related
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Re: Second Skycatcher crash
Looks like the tail rotor is bent after striking the deck...gahorn wrote:Helicopter takeoff accident: (waiting for Bruce's input on this)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3idQKi5 ... re=related
John
Re: Second Skycatcher crash
Yep! Or a J3 if you want to stay within the Light Sport category. It seems like most LSA designs (Skycatcher excepted) make the same compromise: a Rotax engine to save enough weight to include things the "original" LSAs never had: battery, generator, starter, instruments, lights, electronics, even a parachute. Heck, a J3 is a parachute!gahorn wrote:They lost one to spin testing and made the tail larger. Now another crashed, but they're claiming it a "success" story for the parachute deployment. I'd rather have a 150.
John
-
Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10321
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Re: Second Skycatcher crash
I agree give me a J-3 over a plastic Chinese built creation any day.
As for the helicopter. It appears that a rear strap was left attached which is why the deck hand goes back to the rear of the helicopter.
Looking at the blade disk it looks like the pilot had lots of forward cyclic in probably wondering why the helicopter was not moving. He did not release the forward cyclic and the deck hand released the strap and the helicopter took off forward probably startling the pilot who pulled back on the cyclic driving the tail rotor into the deck. Besides bending the tail rotor blades it's obvious something in the tail rotor drive snapped which is why it's not spinning at the end. The 360 after the loss of the tail rotor thrust is to be expected and to be honest the pilot is real lucky to put it down on the pad and not slide into the water.
As for the helicopter. It appears that a rear strap was left attached which is why the deck hand goes back to the rear of the helicopter.
Looking at the blade disk it looks like the pilot had lots of forward cyclic in probably wondering why the helicopter was not moving. He did not release the forward cyclic and the deck hand released the strap and the helicopter took off forward probably startling the pilot who pulled back on the cyclic driving the tail rotor into the deck. Besides bending the tail rotor blades it's obvious something in the tail rotor drive snapped which is why it's not spinning at the end. The 360 after the loss of the tail rotor thrust is to be expected and to be honest the pilot is real lucky to put it down on the pad and not slide into the water.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Re: Second Skycatcher crash
I think the "Whole Airplane" parachute would be better received if there was a chance of using the airplane a second time after deployent.
BL
Re: Second Skycatcher crash
Thanks, Bruce!
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Re: Second Skycatcher crash
It seems pointless to re-invent the wheel.
Perhaps Cessna is out of touch (now that they are selling multi-million dollar corporate jets).
I'll stick to my tried and true retro-bird.
Cheers
Perhaps Cessna is out of touch (now that they are selling multi-million dollar corporate jets).
I'll stick to my tried and true retro-bird.
Cheers
Re: Second Skycatcher crash
Yeah. I think the future is going to be rife with mediocre, uninspired pilots who launch into poorly-planned flights knowing they have whole-plane parachutes and will always be proficient at deploying the BRS. I wonder how long it'll be before one of them is saved only to appear in court to face the survivors of the victim they fall on. BRS will likely be co-defendants.blueldr wrote:I think the "Whole Airplane" parachute would be better received if there was a chance of using the airplane a second time after deployent.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Re: Second Skycatcher crash
Gahorn,
there were similar pilots "way back when" as well. The only difference is that today they will live to fly another day!
Cheers Eric
there were similar pilots "way back when" as well. The only difference is that today they will live to fly another day!
Cheers Eric
Re: Second Skycatcher crash
EWE FELLERS ARE CORNFUZZIN MY HECK OUT - - FIRS A HELIOCOPCHOPPER FLIPS ROUN AN MITE HAVE DID SLICE SUM GUYS HED OFF AND U STARTA TAWKIN BOUT A PARYSHOOT IMA SAY IF IWUZ THU GUY CLOST TO THE BAK OF THAT HELICOCHOPPER IDA WANNED A PARYSHOOT AN IDA JUMP OFF THE SIDE ! !blueldr wrote:I think the "Whole Airplane" parachute would be better received if there was a chance of using the airplane a second time after deployent.
OLE GAR SEZ - 4 Boats, 4 Planes, 4 houses. I've got to quit collecting!
Re: Second Skycatcher crash
The problem I see with "whole plane" parachutes is... it violates Darwin's principles. I think if a pilot has to live or die by his actions he'll be better inspired to learn to do it right and pay attention while he's doin' it. What would Ron Massicot say if politicians were all allowed to fly BRS airplanes?4stripes wrote:Gahorn,
there were similar pilots "way back when" as well. The only difference is that today they will live to fly another day!
Cheers Eric
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Re: Second Skycatcher crash
Well George you asked!!! NOT TO START A POLITICAL ARGUMENT!! If we took both houses and the rest in DC and had them spin test the flycatcher 
and just not attach the chute they might know how we feel--secure without support!!!!!!!!! 
And let them deploy the CHUTE and see the surprise look when it floats off--- yelling OH S*&*^^& all the way down. Ron
and just not attach the chute they might know how we feel--secure without support!!!!!!!!! And let them deploy the CHUTE and see the surprise look when it floats off--- yelling OH S*&*^^& all the way down. RonPresident 86-88
53 C170-B N74887, people choice 2003, Best original B 2007
46 7BCM champ N2843E Rebuilding stage
Cajun Connection way down south, most of you are yankees to me!
53 C170-B N74887, people choice 2003, Best original B 2007
46 7BCM champ N2843E Rebuilding stage
Cajun Connection way down south, most of you are yankees to me!
Re: Second Skycatcher crash
Well I would much rather have control at 45 and crash where I plan than have the parachute decide for me the crash site. Sign of the times ( have someone or something make all the decisions for your life ).
Our 172/170 or a 171 is known as tweener
Re: Second Skycatcher crash
September 24, 2008
SkyCatcher Crash Update
By Mary Grady, Contributing Editor
The test pilot for the Cessna 162 SkyCatcher LSA prototype that crashed last week was spin-testing the airplane and put it into a cross-controlled, power-on stall, Cessna spokesman Doug Oliver told AVweb this week. "He got into a flat spin and couldn't recover," Oliver said. The airplane, which was one of several used in the test program, remained intact until it hit the ground. The spin testing started at about 10,000 feet, and the pilot bailed out safely at about 5,000 feet above the ground. The kind of testing it was undergoing was beyond what is required for the airplane's intended ASTM light sport aircraft certification, Oliver said. He added that the accident is still under investigation but he doesn't expect the findings will result in any plans to modify the design. The airplane was equipped with a BRS ballistic recovery parachute, which was activated by the test pilot but failed to deploy.
Larry Williams, CEO of BRS, told AVweb this week it is too early to determine exactly why the chute didn't work. "It looks to me that the parameters were pretty exceptional," he said. "It was an unusual situation." He added that BRS is working with Cessna and the NTSB to determine what happened, and he might have more information later in the week. Williams added that the BRS design has proven to be robust across a wide range of situations, but if this event shows that the design could be improved to increase its range of effectiveness, his team is ready and willing to learn and make changes. Oliver, of Cessna, noted that the BRS system on the accident aircraft was a standard chute and was not a specially designed spin chute, which is sometimes used in flight testing.
SkyCatcher Crash Update
By Mary Grady, Contributing Editor
The test pilot for the Cessna 162 SkyCatcher LSA prototype that crashed last week was spin-testing the airplane and put it into a cross-controlled, power-on stall, Cessna spokesman Doug Oliver told AVweb this week. "He got into a flat spin and couldn't recover," Oliver said. The airplane, which was one of several used in the test program, remained intact until it hit the ground. The spin testing started at about 10,000 feet, and the pilot bailed out safely at about 5,000 feet above the ground. The kind of testing it was undergoing was beyond what is required for the airplane's intended ASTM light sport aircraft certification, Oliver said. He added that the accident is still under investigation but he doesn't expect the findings will result in any plans to modify the design. The airplane was equipped with a BRS ballistic recovery parachute, which was activated by the test pilot but failed to deploy.
Larry Williams, CEO of BRS, told AVweb this week it is too early to determine exactly why the chute didn't work. "It looks to me that the parameters were pretty exceptional," he said. "It was an unusual situation." He added that BRS is working with Cessna and the NTSB to determine what happened, and he might have more information later in the week. Williams added that the BRS design has proven to be robust across a wide range of situations, but if this event shows that the design could be improved to increase its range of effectiveness, his team is ready and willing to learn and make changes. Oliver, of Cessna, noted that the BRS system on the accident aircraft was a standard chute and was not a specially designed spin chute, which is sometimes used in flight testing.