New York Tower Controllers

[Blue4]

I'm a little surprised that no one has commented yet about the bad press the aviation community is once again getting from our overhyped media.

After hearing the tapes of the younger tower controller at JFK, I'm afraid I don't see what all the fuss is about. I know there's a maximum hiring age for controllers, perhaps the minimum was lowered? We let 121 pilots work until age 65 now, so why not let the younger generation get in a little earlier in the tower?

Personally, I've seen far worse controlling from much more experienced controllers. We've all heard and told the jokes about "bring your daughter to work day" from the tower--and now it looks like someone actually did it. I thought the kids did a great job.

I must point out that the term "controller" is really a misnomer -- they only have the ILLUSION of control because we choose to do what they say.

I hope y'all had a chuckle at tots giving takeoff clearances. In all seriousness, hopefully the feds and NATCA have a sense of humor. A good controller sure makes getting the job done easier and safer.

[voorheesh]

I just listened to the recordings again on TV and the kid made very clear transmissions using correct phraesology and the typical fun lingo like "adios amigos" such as you might hear on the frequency to make the day go by a little easier. The cable TV person could not believe that the Jet Blue and Mexicana pilots went along with it and went on to suggest that these transmissions might have caused an accident. The controller obviously meant well in letting his kid have that experience but it was a huge mistake. This is a serious business and there is little tolerance for fun and games.

[mit]

I just listened to the recordings again on TV and the kid made very clear transmissions using correct phraesology and the typical fun lingo like "adios amigos" such as you might hear on the frequency to make the day go by a little easier. The cable TV person could not believe that the Jet Blue and Mexicana pilots went along with it and went on to suggest that these transmissions might have caused an accident. The controller obviously meant well in letting his kid have that experience but it was a huge mistake. This is a serious business and there is little tolerance for fun and games.

I was married to an ATC for 20 years, her Dad was a controller her step mother was a controller and her brother was a FSS spec. then became a controller. I have been around a lot of ACT people since the Strike. This was a NON EVENT! I would guess it has been done many times across the country. If you think that there was any derogation in Safety then you must not have ever been around training controllers.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

I've really started to hate the media. They have no idea what they heck they are talking about. And in those few cases when they might actually have the story right, how would we be able to tell. I have a unique perspective of course having worked the print news media for nearly twenty years and then 5 years piloting an electronic news gathering helicopter "capturing the news" and seeing how it is used. In my opinion ALL of the news media has a large part in what is wrong with the U.S. today.

Wouldn't it be refreshing if the alphabet government department heads stood up and said "so what the kid made a few transmissions". When the American people start turning off the boob tube, we will stop being a bunch of boobs.

[jrenwick]

I think the fuss over this is an insult to the professionalism of pilots and controllers. Of course you can't have shenanigans like that, and the controller has to be punished, because what if it became everyday practice to bring your kid or your talking parrot to work and let them work traffic? (See Immanuel Kant: Categorical Imperative.) But if we all lived by that rule, all the time, where would the fun be? Sometimes a good, harmless joke is worth the price if you can pull it off that well.

[cessna170bdriver]

Instead of punishing the guy, they should air the particulars about how the kid wasn't really "controlling" traffic", that his dad had a headset and PTT and could have taken over in a split second had the need arose. No harm, no foul. Good thing the media didn't find out about me sitting in the captain's seat of an enroute B-737 with 17 hours total time and 5 hours since soloing a C150...

Miles

[Brad Brady]

How many non-CFI's have let their kids, or the neighbor kids pilot the aircraft they were flying?.....UMMMMM....Mabey EVERONE?

[jrenwick]

How many non-CFI's have let their kids, or the neighbor kids pilot the aircraft they were flying?.....UMMMMM....Mabey EVERONE?

Shhhhhhhh...!

[blueldr]

I personally consider it a great hullabaloo over nothing. Apparently the higher-ups of the Federal Fuzz think that the captain of that flight might turn left into the Empire State Building if he heard the childish voice of a twelve year old directing him to do so.

[jrenwick]

If airline safety weren't under the kind of examination that it is right now, this might have been a non-issue. But: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/poli ... 5834.story

[ronjenx]

I think the point of all the hullabaloo is "It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye". They caused no harm, but there are countless times when things went wrong.

I recall a flight where the crew members' wives were aboard for an incentive flight. When the recovery crew got to the smoking hole in the ground, there was evidence two of the wives were in the front seats. What probably started off as an innocent attempt at getting pictures of the two wives at the controls, ended with 8 people dead.
When I was 10, my dad let me take the throttle of a locomotive. Harmless, right? Well, the engine decided to climb off the rail at that moment. We were going less than 5 mph.

These examples are a lot worse than letting a kid talk on the radio, but they were lucky nothing went wrong, related or not, while the kid was there.

Being so visible (audible), the FAA has to object. They cannot ignore it.

I agree with what was said about the media blowing things out of proportion, and not getting the facts right most of the time.

[voorheesh]

I am not an air traffic controller and I choose to not pay attention to the media reports of incidents which sensationalize stories like this. What I do know however, is that controllers live under much more pressure and have much more direct oversight than pilots. If a controller botches up phraesology, for example, he or she can face discipline. Not so for pilots. A controller responsible for loss of separation can get pulled off position, re-trained, down graded or fired. Controllers in places such as New York are responsible for multiple flights at one time, not to mention coordination with other sectors. Sorry guys, it is a serious job with consequences for even minor error or oversight. Anyone who has worked in the system as a professional knows this and would not appreciate the actions of the JFK controller no matter how innocent or well intended. I will never forget being on about a 3 mile final for 28R at San Francisco many years ago when an airliner departing 1R declared an emergency with a full flap asymmetry. If you want to appreciate an air traffic controller, you would want to hear the calm deliberate instructions that got me and about 5 in trail out of the way and allowed that crippled jet to get back safely on the ground. Go ahead and blame the "media" for the world's problems but like I said earlier, this is a serious business.

[blueldr]

All air traffic controllers are not doing "serious" air traffic control all of the time.

[Zreyn]

Yep,sure is a good thing that "controller" kept his cool or there would have been a big pile up there on final! We get so used to listening to someone elses directions that we sometimes forget who is in control & who is responsible.Non event except to fill TV air time.IMHO

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

I don't think anyone is saying controllers don't have a serious job. What I'm saying is once again people in the media are grabbing hold of something they have very little knowledge about automatically proclaiming it a dangerious act putting billions and billions in jeoperdy and oh my gosh the sky is falling over JFK everybody run. And of course it was as exclusive discovery made first and only by their station.

So automatically the politicians hungry for votes and the alphabet government agencies looking for funding have to weigh in on the sky falling in JFK and what they are going to do about it.

Has any of them actually stopped and thought about it. This was not an individual who just decided to take his kid to work one day so he could catch a smoke while the kid cleared Jets. He did not work in a closet somewhere unsupervised. How many people here have actually visited a busy control tower? I'm sure at least Voorheesh has. I've been in the Philadelphia control tower twice now which hardly makes me an expert. But one thing I know is this guy was not alone and he just didn't show up unannounced with his kid. I'll bet there were at least 6 other controllers and probably more in the tower with him. I'll bet his kid met at least 20 people of authority in the hall before he ever made it to the tower.

Lets take this a bit further. Not only were all of those controllers in the tower there are scores of other management overseeing and reviewing every step taken. There were not just the pilots that actually talked to the kid but I'm sure several others who heard it. Fact is management might have already been handling this in a professional manner we might never now. But the point is it was NOT a major news story. Not at least till two or three weeks later when at least one news organization, and I use the term news organization loosely, hears the transmissions on an Internet site.

Of course NOW that this has been blown all out of proportion we must have his head and the head of his supervisor at the very least. We must ruin the career of a twenty year veteran controller and I'll bet his supervisor had at least that many. Has anyone seen the "dirt" that has surfaced on the controller? Yes seems he might have been a bad egg since he was at one time a union rep. What will we hear next. I wonder what the GPA of that kid was? Obviously a class clown and trouble maker.

And of course now people saying pilots and controllers are not being professional or professional enough. Bull. We've set a very high standard and the vast majority seem to meet this standard or at least it hasn't been recorded on the Internet yet. The fact is we are all human. Humans no matter how perfect we try to be are still human. Professionals make mistakes.

What we need is more Professionals in the news media and a few less Professionals in politics looking for votes. Could you imagine Walter Cronkite reporting this in his day. The kid would have been invited to a few more towers after Cronkite was done.