Beware of new Continental O-300 crankshafts

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hilltop170
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Beware of new Continental O-300 crankshafts

Post by hilltop170 »

To start with, I want everyone to know I am getting no pleasure out of submitting this post and am VERY upset with TCM. I was very fortunate and had options available but a very serious accident could have happened. Right now my plane could be smashed up out on the tundra someplace and its passengers hurt or worse had I not reacted soon enough. As it is, I made some good decisions and lucked-out and nothing happened except a plane covered in oil. No metal was bent and no one was injured. The outcome could have easily been much different. To quote one of my earlier posts on Engine Break-in, "We were IFR (I Follow Roads- in the winter, in Alaska, with a new engine)", I have made it a habit to be extra cautious during break-in and give myself as many options as possible should a problem occur. Never before have I had a problem with a new engine requiring immediate action but being ready for it probably kept the situation a nuisance instead of an emergency.

Anyone who has one installed, has bought, or is considering buying a new manufacture crankshaft from Continental needs to know there is a VERY SERIOUS SAFETY ISSUE with the new cranks.

These new cranks, p/n 653382 are also used in the IO-360 Continental which has a constant speed prop requiring a pressurized supply of oil for prop operation.

The crank is hollow from the prop flange to the crank throw on #6 cylinder. There are oil supply holes drilled thru the crank wall adjacent to the front main bearing to supply oil to the constant speed prop. There is a press-fit bushing inserted into the prop end of the crank and located adjacent to the oil supply holes in the crank. The bushing has oil holes drilled to supply oil to the prop on the front side and a solid back side to seal off the hollow shaft. The IO-520 crank has the same part in it.

Crankshaft bushing front side
Image

Crankshaft bushing back side
Image

There is a straight thread plug fitted with a crush washer screwed into the straight thread hole in the bushing from the front side thru the prop hub. This plug was not safety wired, Locktite'd, tab washered, or secured in any manner other than specified torque. These type plugs are used in other places on Continental engines. In ALL other cases they are safety wired.
Image

I bought a factory-in-the-box-new crankshaft from Continental when the engine was rebuilt in the summer of 2006. In December, 2006 I had 9 hours total time on the new rebuild.

On the last flight everything was normal at pre-flight and take-off. No oil leaks anywhere and no oil on the windshield. Within 10 minutes of take-off oil started accumulating on the windshield so I returned to the airport. By the time I landed with a total flight time of 20 minutes, the windshield was covered with oil coming out of the spinner.
Image

As-found condition after removing spinner
Image

The engine rebuilder was called to inspect the situation and screwed the plug in three turns before it bottomed out and another 1/2 turn before it torqued up. The plug has four threads. It was less than one thread away from falling completely out! Had that happened, the engine oil would have been pumped overboard out of the 3/8" hole at 45psi. It probably would have taken only a few seconds to empty the sump.

I have talked to two tech reps at Continental in the past week hoping to get some guidance from them before writing this post. Neither one has bothered to call back. The first guy offered no suggestions what-so-ever. The second guy said and I quote,"Just put a new crush washer on it and screw it back in. We have a lot of these out there and usually don't have a problem with them". USUALLY???? How many oil starvation accidents does it take to impress these people? This guy couldn't even give me the proper torque to use much less suggest a fix that might actually work for the life of the engine! The first failure occurred 9 hours from NEW!!!

I asked the second guy what were the chances Contintntal could send me a bushing without the oil holes drilled. He said,"Zero, they only come one way and that's what you have." These people are unbelievable. They sell you a new part that is defective and refuse to offer a credible solution.

UPDATE:
1/29/2007- I called TCM for the third time because no one had returned my first two calls. I talked to the first guy again and he apologized for not calling back. He had done nothing in regard to the problem since my first call. I told him what I was looking for was an actual solution for the problem such as a bushing with no oil holes or some means or method to positively lock the plug in place. He consulted with his supervisor and they decided "without a certification process for a new bushing, we recommend putting the plug back in with a new crush washer at the correct torque", just like it was shipped from the factory. I told him I was very disappointed with the answer and was hoping TCM would have come up with an actual fix. I told him ±20 minutes to engine failure was not acceptable and he agreed. The problem needs to be fixed before I am comfortable flying the plane. I need to fly it from Alaska to Texas and there is no way I would risk it with their recommendation. I then told him the engine installer had given me an FAA "Malfunction or Defect Report" and had recommended we submit it since there are many other crankshafts out in the field with the same problem. I had hoped TCM would have come up with a fix so I wouldn't have to send it in. But if TCM sticks by its recommendation to reinstall the plug with a new crush washer, then that is unacceptable and I'll be compelled to submit it. He then said he would take another look at it and get back with me. I gave him two phone numbers and told him I would be waiting.
Last edited by hilltop170 on Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
2023 Best Original 170A at Sault Ste. Marie
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
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cessna170bdriver
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Post by cessna170bdriver »

YIKES! 8O

And I thought is was scary to drop a valve and punch holes in a piston. That "ventilated" piston was pumping oil at a LOT lower rate that your crankshaft apparently was.

As far as I know, the old crankshafts for the O-300A are also hollow and drilled the same as you described for the new cranks, but a "Hubbard" plug is installed to seal the front of the shaft for use with fixed-pitch propellers. Might that be an option in place of, (or in addition to??) the bushing and screw plug? Might be worth asking TCM, assuming you can get their attention. (When assembling my engine about a year ago, I had several questions and called the support number on TCM's website, and got immediate, useful answers. The tech support guy answered the phone directly.)

Miles
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Post by Jr.CubBuilder »

That's scary, I think I'd loctite that thing legal or not.
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blueldr
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Post by blueldr »

MILES,

On one of my old C-145 engines I had the "Freeze" plug come out of the inside of the crankshaft in the front main journal. It also leaked a small amount of oil out into the spinner. However, the hole in the crankshaft only went through into the crankcase. There was no hole drilled through into the pressurized oil area. All I really got was some "breather"oil, but enough to dirty the windshield and make you wonder how in hell a fixed pitch prop could throw oil.
BL
hilltop170
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Post by hilltop170 »

I think the tech reps are only allowed to tell you what is in the overhaul manual and parts catalog, not much more. Hopefully, that's why I haven't heard back yet, they realize there's a major problem and they're coming up with a game plan and aren't talking until they know what to do. I hope I'm not giving them too much credit.

The bushing is balanced, pressure-wise, and has no tendency to push itself out of the shaft either direction. A straight plug of any sort will have 45psi pressure on one side or about 150 pounds force (assuming 2"dia.) always trying to blow it out the end of the shaft. There are no grooves to hold a snap ring or lip to hold a freeze plug. It would take a real stout plug to hold that for the next 1500 hours.

Permanently sealing the hole in the bushing is the only concern, it shouldn't take anything major to figure that out. We'll see what they come up with. I'll bet $$$ they say Locktite it and forget it.
Last edited by hilltop170 on Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
2023 Best Original 170A at Sault Ste. Marie
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
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cessna170bdriver
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Post by cessna170bdriver »

Richard,

I just noticed something. If that crush washer is the one that came with your crankshaft, the plug was never tightened. The washer in the picture has never been crushed. Could it be that the plug was loose to begin with, maybe just finger tight and somehow didn't leak for 9 hours?

Just a thought. Miles
Last edited by cessna170bdriver on Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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cessna170bdriver
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Post by cessna170bdriver »

hilltop170 wrote:The bushing is balanced, pressure-wise, and has no tendency to push itself out of the shaft either direction. A straight plug of any sort will have 45psi pressure on one side or about 150 pounds force (assuming 2"dia.) always trying to blow it out the end of the shaft. There are no grooves to hold a snap ring or lip to hold a freeze plug. It would take a real stout plug to hold that for the next 1500 hours.
I see what you mean now that I look closer at the design of the bushing. I had just assumed that the hubbard plugs in the old cranks had pressure behind them, but maybe that isn't the case. As I remember the old plug that came out of my engine was fairly stout (about .063?? steel). I had just assumed (we all know what the result of that is :wink: ) that the only difference in the C-145/O-300 engines with controllable props was the valve in the case to control the oil pressure to the front of the crank. I guess the cranks are different too?

Miles
hilltop170
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Post by hilltop170 »

Miles-
Good observation. The crush washer in the picture is a new one. The old one was smashed as flat as a washer. Another problem with the crush washer is that there is a thread relief undercut on the plug next to the head because the threads can't be cut all the way to the head. Since the crush washer has to go over the threads of the plug, it is loose and can shift off-center when it faces up to the head and is tightened down.

If they had used a tab washer like on the carburetor and the tabs had been bent we wouldn't be having this discussion.

All of the cranks have hollow bores straight thru from the prop flange to the first throw. On non-drilled cranks, a "freeze plug" is all that's needed because there is only crankcase pressure behind it.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
2023 Best Original 170A at Sault Ste. Marie
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
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GAHorn
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Post by GAHorn »

The "relief" beneath the bolt head is in order to accomodate the spreading of that crush washer when it is torqued down.
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hilltop170
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Post by hilltop170 »

Well after 5 months of being totally blown-off by several TCM tech reps on numerous phone calls to the TCM Technical Service Department, I finally spoke with a guy who got the problem solved.

In the 5 months I've been trying to get a solution to why the plug (with 45psi oil pressure behind it) fell out of the end of my BRAND NEW out of the box TCM O-300 crankshaft, not one of the tech reps happened to find out that the plug should have LockTite 222 on the threads or would divulge the proper torque spec for the plug. And this is after I directly asked them what the torque should be and if LockTite should be used! They kept saying, "Just put a new crush washer on it and torque it down.

I finally told the last guy I was not going away and he might as well find out the answers to the problem. I told him we could do it the easy way or the hard way but I wasn't going to let TCM off the hook until they came up with a solution. And I wasn't going to fly the plane more than 10 minutes away from an airport because that's how long it takes for the plug to unscrew itself once it starts.

He went to engineering and found the answers. No big deal, the first, second, and third guys could have done the same thing but didn't for whatever reason.

So the correct answers according to TCM Engineering are, use LockTite 222 on the plug threads and torque the plug to 70-90 in-pounds.

My plug backed-out because it did NOT have any LockTite on the threads and may not have been torqued properly from the factory.

Since my mechanic would not reinstall the plug last December without LockTite, it's good to know TCM recommends LockTite. In the following 17 hours, there has been no further leakage and the plug is holding nicely.

So now I feel comfortable flying the plane from Alaska to Texas without worrying about losing oil pressure and the plane is in the shop having an annual and getting all tuned-up for the trip to Galveston!
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
2023 Best Original 170A at Sault Ste. Marie
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
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53B
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Re: Beware of new Continental O-300 crankshafts

Post by 53B »

Hi Richard,

In an effort not to hijack my own want ad, I am resurrecting this thread. I work for a smaller cargo airline and we operate barons, navajos, caravans and lear 35's. We do our own piston engine overhauls. I was aware of this thread before but couldn't offer anymore than you already had posted. Since you are still having problems,I shared your pictures with our engine builder and he was surprised to see that plug arrangement. He felt that the entire plug assembly should be removed and the original style plug installed. We went to TCM's website where we subscribe to FBO services. I pulled up the current crankshaft parts list and picture. It calls out the latest crankshaft part number of 653382 which I believe is what you have. However it shows the original style plug installation which is not what you currently have.
I was wondering if your new crank even had the annualar groove for the retaining ring? If it does, you might try removing your current plug set-up (the larger plug is fairly easily removed with a slide hammer) and installing the original style plug which if I remember is a plug with an o-ring on it that is retained by a snap ring, then a hubbard (expansion) plug that covers all of that up. I have added the parts list and picture below.
O300 parts list.xls
Crankshaft assembly parts list
(21 KiB) Downloaded 364 times
O300 crank.gif
Forgive me if you already have been down this road. I thought it strange that the parts book shows a different assembly than what they sold you. This might be some leverage for you if you want to go back to them.

Now if none of the above helps, our engine builder suggested removing the oil transfer bushing, drilling and tapping(missing the perpendicular oil passage) for a drilled fillister head screw, installing the threaded plug with crush gasket and safteying to the fillister head screw then driving the assembly back into the crankshaft. If removal was ever needed, you could break the safety wire with a chisel to remove the threaded plug then slide hammer the oil transfer bushing out.

I hope this helps. If you have any questions, pm me and I'll give you my cell number.
Happy Flying,

Mark
1958 Cessna 172 N9153B
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canav8
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Re: Beware of new Continental O-300 crankshafts

Post by canav8 »

Richard, please make sure you file a Service Difficulty Report (SDR) with the FAA. If you don't know what one it, have a look here. If you have had the problem, I am sure others have to.
http://av-info.faa.gov/isdr/
Respectfully, Doug
52' C-170B N2713D Ser #25255
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53B
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Re: Beware of new Continental O-300 crankshafts

Post by 53B »

Well Richard,
After doing a little part number cross refernce research, it appears that the parts list that I posted above shows the part numbers that you probably have. The picture must have been reused from the original parts catalog. Sorry for the false alarm.

Mark
Happy Flying,

Mark
1958 Cessna 172 N9153B
hilltop170
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Re: Beware of new Continental O-300 crankshafts

Post by hilltop170 »

Thanks for all the suggestions and ideas.

The last mechanic who replaced the plug filed a Service Difficulty Report.

I think I will buy another bushing, have the oil passage hole tapped with straight pipe threads, and screw pipe plugs into both sides of the bushing slathered down with Lock Tite. We'll stake the pipe plugs to the bushing and install into the crank. Then it won't matter whether or not the front plug comes loose.

It's a damn shame TCM refuses to deal with this major safety issue when the permanent fix is so simple. I hope it doesn't kill anybody or cause a plane to be damaged or destroyed.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
2023 Best Original 170A at Sault Ste. Marie
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
PilotMikeTX
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Re: Beware of new Continental O-300 crankshafts

Post by PilotMikeTX »

I don't have anything to add except these two link that you may find useful:

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Now I want to know how many of you freaks know your Lubricants, Sealants and Adhesive, but don't have a clue as to your torque values... :wink:
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