The International Cessna 170 Association

Tim the problem we have is we don't even know how many have happened because of the brake system. You see accident investigators don't know to look for it and the brake would still have to be engaged during the investigation to find it. An unlikely scenario since applying the brake with release it.

I did not mean to imply that no one recognized the issue till lately. Just that now we have a much better way to communicate to lots of folks. Cleo may have told all he could but I've heard a story about a long long time member who suspects his ground loop may have been caused by the parking brake. And he hadn't heard of the issue though you would think he would have.

While the association has always been about dissemination of information I think it safe to say the we have been able to disseminate more information more consistantly and readily available to more folks in the last 10 years than in the first 30 through this forum.

There was one time I was concerned that I had disabled my parking brake. It occurred when I had landed off airport to fish and my starter malfunctioned. Hand proping a plane by yourself without parking brakes will get your attention. Lots of ropes to the fence post worked well along with salt licks for chocks. Steve

I would NEVER trust parking brakes to hold an unoccupied airplane while I propped it. ALWAYS tie the tail to a sturdy object.
(Doggy Kline was once said (by Cleo Bickford) to have climbed into the cockpit of his Morse-Scout and used his pistol to shoot the tail-tie-down rope in-two so he could taxi away.

gahorn wrote:I would NEVER trust parking brakes to hold an unoccupied airplane while I propped it. ALWAYS tie the tail to a sturdy object.
(Doggy Kline was once said (by Cleo Bickford) to have climbed into the cockpit of his Morse-Scout and used his pistol to shoot the tail-tie-down rope in-two so he could taxi away.

If you ever met Doggie, you would believe that story!

Here's a quote from Service Difficulty Report 98ZZZX1317 if anyone needs further motivation for disconnecting the parking brake:

THE AIRCRAFT NOSED OVER ON LANDING CAUSED BY BOTH BRAKES BEING LOCKED ON TOUCHDOWN. PRIOR TO LANDING (SHORT FINAL) THE PILOT HAD TO USE FULL RUDDER DEFLECTION. WHEN THE AIRCRAFT TOUCHED DOWN THE AIRPLANE NOSED OVER. THE BRAKES WERE FOUND LOCKED, WHEN FULL RUDDER TRAVEL USED, THE LOCKPLATE CONTACTS THE FIREWALL AND LOCKS THE BRAKES. SUBMITTER STATED THIS IS A KNOWN CONDITION, BUT NO AD HAS BEEN ISSUED.

gahorn wrote:I would NEVER trust parking brakes to hold an unoccupied airplane while I propped it. ALWAYS tie the tail to a sturdy object.
(Doggy Kline was once said (by Cleo Bickford) to have climbed into the cockpit of his Morse-Scout and used his pistol to shoot the tail-tie-down rope in-two so he could taxi away.

Sign him up for the next season of "Top Shot"!

n2582d wrote:THE AIRCRAFT NOSED OVER ON LANDING CAUSED BY BOTH BRAKES BEING LOCKED ON TOUCHDOWN. PRIOR TO LANDING (SHORT FINAL) THE PILOT HAD TO USE FULL RUDDER DEFLECTION. WHEN THE AIRCRAFT TOUCHED DOWN THE AIRPLANE NOSED OVER. THE BRAKES WERE FOUND LOCKED, WHEN FULL RUDDER TRAVEL USED, THE LOCKPLATE CONTACTS THE FIREWALL AND LOCKS THE BRAKES. SUBMITTER STATED THIS IS A KNOWN CONDITION, BUT NO AD HAS BEEN ISSUED.

Now I'm really confused. I dont see any way to accidentally lock both brakes this way. It would only lock the side that hit the firewall.

I suppose the pilot could have used full left and full right rudder, activating each side.

Are there any STC's out there to replace the parking brake system with another? Perhaps the hydraulic lock method?

I haven't disconnected mine yet and I find that I use it a lot.

Our pumps are real close to other planes (Like enough room to taxi between the pumps and the plane kinda close) and has a nice gentile slope right there. If I didn't have a parking brake I couldn't pump gas by myself in the slightest breeze. The plane would either roll away or swing it's tail into another plane. That and a few other places where I was glad I could lock the brakes before I got out to chock the wheels.

I'm now in the habit of tapping my brakes on short final a few times so make sure everything is OK.

Has anyone converted parking brakes?

bagarre,
To answer your question about anyone modifing the parking brake system, the answer is yes. I took out the stock set up and installed a "Cane Handle" system out of a C-182.

If you want a parking brake, go with the cane style and it is an approved pma'd part and requires only a logbook entry, at least as far as the FAA up here is concerned... They are the Federal Aviation Administration, not the Alaska Aviation Administration. I am not sure why I see all the posts that say the FAA up here does things differently. I actually think maybe shops down south just do not research and try to do things legally and work with their inspectors. Come on guys, is it really that adversarial down south with the FAA?

Is it spelled "Naive"?

Anyone have a picture of the 182 brake conversion or details of it?
It's the same as in the 172's I trained it, from the looks.

blueldr wrote:Is it spelled "Naive"?

Yes it is Evian spelled backwards as in Evian The bottled water company. Hmmmmmm! D

If you don't think the FAA in Alaska is any different than the one in the lower-48.... then try landing at LAX with a sheet of plywood strapped as an external load.