Bartone / Benham Exhuast Pics

N419A · Post by **N419A** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:17 am

Anyone have any pictures of the Bartone or Benham exhause pipes? Installed, cowls on, cowls off, uninstalled. Are they two extentions that exit out the lower back cowl or do they join to have one pipe exiting in the rear? Any 170's in the Fairbanks Area have them?
Thanks for any info. or pics.
Paul

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:08 am

They are 2 separate pipes that exit near the firewall. Perhaps someone has a picture.

N419A · Post by **N419A** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:15 am

Thanks, received a PM from anouther member who's going to email me some pics of his set up. Thinking this setup may help with keeping things warm in the winter.
Paul

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:09 pm

I don't know how the mod would help keep things warm. Instead of the pipes exiting straight out of the muffler and down throught the cowl they bend and exit the fire wall. There is no increase in the heat muff.

I've heard that the reduced drag from not having the "fangs" throught the cowl will increase your speed a 1/2 mile or so (

) and most people runningthem think the sound is more pleasant. I think I also recall people saying the aircraft noise level is reduced in the cockpit but I may be dreaming.

johneeb · Post by **johneeb** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:56 pm

N9149A wrote: I've heard that the reduced drag from not having the "fangs" throught the cowl will increase your speed a 1/2 mile or so ( ) and most people runningthem think the sound is more pleasant. I think I also recall people saying the aircraft noise level is reduced in the cockpit but I may be dreaming.

Bruce,

I maybe be the one dreaming but I think the Bartone pipes are quieter by virtue of the exhaust pulses not stricking the belly skin. Pat Bartone has said that he created the pipes during his quest to make his airplane quieter.

As to speed increase I know for a fact that my speed increased .62552310034170 MPH. You have to be very precise and hold your head just right to read this change in speed.

alaskan99669 · Post by **alaskan99669** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:34 am

Picture of Benham Exhasut installed on '53 170B:

cessna170bdriver · Post by **cessna170bdriver** » Wed May 31, 2006 5:43 am

Did anyone ever come up with any good pictures of John Beham's exhaust pipe installation? I'm installing a set and I'm not sure I'm putting everything in the right way. The drawings leave a lot to be desired, and some pictures of a correct installation would help greatly.

The pipes themselves seem to fit very nicely, but I'm having a bit of trouble with the support. Either the support is too short, or the hanger bolts are too long. It seems to me that the hanger bolts should be more or less perpendicular to the support channel. If I slide the support channel forward on the engine mount to square up the bolts, it gets too close to clamp on the engine mount. If I slide the support aft, it causes the bolts to splay out as shown in the pictures below.

It looks to me as if it would fit better if the support was UNDER the pipes and further forward, but the one thing the drawings are clear on is that the support is ABOVE the pipes. There may be a chance I could have the left and right pipes swapped, but I think that would make the pipes too close together to fit the support.

Also, is the cross brace between the mufflers still used? I'm assuming it is, but I can't tell from John's drawings (marked up drawings from the IPC). Any help here would be appreciated.

170C · Post by **170C** » Wed May 31, 2006 1:02 pm

Miles, FWIW, when I first put Bartone pipes on Ole Pokey I had them supported by the cross bar which was attached to the engine mount via adel clamps. At overhaul my AI didn't particularily like that setup so we went with attaching them to the firewall via rubber supports. Although not FAA-PMA approved, we used sections of old main gear tire side wall rubber for the "hangars". First ones lasted about 4 1/2 yrs. I replaced them with newer rubber last year as vibration and engine oil eventually took their toll. I personally like the firewall mount better, but have seen some nice installations with the cross bar. Depending upon how tight the pipes fit can make quite a difference in firewall clearance back that far from the mufflers. Your engine overhaul looks really nice. Will have to see it in Kelowna.

cessna170bdriver · Post by **cessna170bdriver** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:04 pm

Frank,

I only recently realized that the Bartone pipes could be hung via a cross support to the engine mount. In addition to the fact that John D provides an STC and Pat doesn't, one of the main reasons I chose the Benham pipes was that I usually prefer any option that doesn't require me to drill any more holes in the airplane. (I said a little prayer before drilling the hole for my engine analyzer thermocouple wires).

I just got off the phone with John Benham, and he says the bolts should not hang straight down from the adel clamps, but shoud run in toward the support somewhat, as that will tend to keep the pipes centered, and not swing back and forth on the spring loaded hanger bolts. That's not what his drawing shows, but I'll take his word for it. I'll definitely have him take a look at the installation at Kelowna.

Miles

alaskan99669 · Post by **alaskan99669** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:54 pm

My Benham's hang straight down from the adel clamps. Been that way for 1000+ hours and are very solid. BTW, finally made them legal a few weeks ago by having them inspected and getting the STC from John.

cessna170bdriver · Post by **cessna170bdriver** » Wed May 31, 2006 4:55 pm

Corey,

I can't wait to get home to see the pictures. The Air Force firewall just started blocking personal web addresses such as geocities and all I get are a couple of red X's where the pictures should be. (It's probably just a matter of time before they block these forums too.

)

John called me back a little while ago and told me that he must have been asleep when I called him earier, as he forgot to tell me that he had sent longer hanger bolts and extra springs in an attempt to make sure the cross brace clears my F&M oil filter. It turns out that the oil filter is not an issue, so he told me to move the extra spring down to the head end of the hanger bolt, below the cross brace, to make the cross brace ride higher on the hangar bolt. This sounds like a workable solution. I'll post more pics tonight if it works.

Miles

170C · Post by **170C** » Wed May 31, 2006 11:16 pm

Good photos of the Benham set up. Quite honestly I don't think I have ever seen any of John's pipes as far as how they are supported at the rear of the engine compartment. I will have to ck out Miles's set up so I can see how the springs are used. Guess that keeps them solid, but allows for engine movement. That seems to be the purpose of using a rubber support on Pat's system whether hung form the cross piece or the firewall. I have always wondered what the reason is for one type of engine having on muffler & a single exhaust while others, like our O-300's, have dual systems. I would like to think it had to do with bettering performance, but suspect it was economic from Cessna's point of view.

As an aside, if anyone has to have one of these pipes replaced, I would check w/ Pat or John to see if they will sell a single one. A couple of years ago I had to replace the left one on mine (not the fault of the design or Pat) and unfortunately some exhaust repair facility in Wisconsin (I think) ended up duplicating my original one, but didn't get the final bend or length exact and they charged what I originally paid for both of them. I dislike those things we seem to not have control of at the time

cessna170bdriver · Post by **cessna170bdriver** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:28 am

Where's the icon for slapping yourself in the head with the heel of your hand!? (Why didn't I think of that?, Duh!) Maybe I need to take a few days off this project and let my head clear.

I assembled the cross brace and hangers EXACTLY as John's drawing shows. With the shorter bolts shown on the drawing, the adel clamps need to have the flat side UNDER the mount tube. I noticed in the very top left of Corey's second picture that his adel clamp's flat side goes OVER the mount tube, giving about another 3/4 inch for the longer bolt. (Corey's bolts seem to be about the same length as the ones John sent me.) By turning the clamps over, I'll be able to slide them forward up the mount tube so they'll be further inboard and over the mounting holes in the cross brace. How much more obvious could the solution have been? Again, DUH!!

FWIW, jwild sent me some pictures and paperwork of his installation which uses a tubular cross brace attached to the engine mount by a pair of adel clamps at each end, and tire-sidewall type hangers from the cross brace to the pipe clamps. To me that is the best of both worlds, using the rubber hangers without drilling into the firewall. If Jim says it's OK, I'll post a picture or two of his installation.

Miles

cessna170bdriver · Post by **cessna170bdriver** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 8:58 am

Here are some pics of jwild's hanger for his Bartone pipes:

AR Dave · Post by **AR Dave** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:18 pm

Thanks Miles for posting Jim's pictures! I've been searching through my files for those pictures. I set my Bartones up identical to Jims. His plane is also a 55 and the 337 was approved April 2003. My hard copies are currently with the FAA.

The International Cessna 170 Association

Bartone / Benham Exhuast Pics

Bartone / Benham Exhuast Pics

Tailpipes

Those Tail/Exhause Pipes