Horton STOL kit

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Fri May 21, 2004 5:08 pm

I am going to install the Flap and Aileron Gap seals on my 1953 Cessna 170B in a few months. I have not ordered them as of yet.

I would like to know if anyone has any experience with the Horton STOL kit on a Cessna 170. I don't like the part that the kit uses "blind rivits"; but, other than that I was curious if the modification was worth getting?

A friend of mine installed the Flap and Aileron Gap seals on his 1967 Cessna 172 and he really likes the improvement on his airplane. My assumption is that I would get similiar results on my Cessna 170.

Thanks in advance for any advice, input, etc. that I get on this posting.

I really think this is a good thing for us in the TIC170A. I have gotten a lot of really good information without even having to post anything. I have gotten really good results on the two that I have posted. Maybe one day somebody will post something that I know something about and I can return the favor.

Keep them flying forever.

N170BP · Post by **N170BP** » Fri May 21, 2004 5:44 pm

Do a search on "flap gap seals fowler" (click the button
that says "Search for all terms") and you'll find info on
why you may, or may not want to install the flap gap seals.

Someone posted that they gained 4mph with the flap gap
seals while noticing no degradation in performance of the
flaps.

I do recommend/like the aileron gap seals.

Roesbery · Post by **Roesbery** » Fri May 21, 2004 6:17 pm

I think you should consider the Sportsman stol kit. It was developed for the C-170 and actually adds lift area. Lowered my heavy loaded takeoff ground roll about 1/3rd with 180 hp Lyc.

N3243A · Post by **N3243A** » Fri May 21, 2004 6:49 pm

I agree with Roesbery. Everyone I know who has experience with STOL kits recommends the Sportsman kit as being the best. My A&P bought a C-180 with a Horton already installed, drilled it out and installed the Sportsman kit. He thought there was enough difference to make that swap worth his time. (of course he gets to sign his own work so is not a big deal). About 40 hours to do the install I was told. The Sportsman kits are $400 more but take the same time for installation.

Bruce

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Fri May 21, 2004 7:05 pm

Bela,you said that yours has the Sportsman? I don't recall seeing stall fences on top. Does the Sportsman not have those?

Eric

N170BP · Post by **N170BP** » Fri May 21, 2004 7:34 pm

I don't believe the Sportsman has those....

At least mine doesn't.

Indopilot · Post by **Indopilot** » Fri May 21, 2004 11:40 pm

I have installed several Sportsman kits and they don't use a stall fence. Unless the A/C also has a Robertson installed
Brian

t7275tr · Post by **t7275tr** » Sat May 22, 2004 12:01 am

I have a 54 B model with the Horton STOL kit. I have several friends with B's and I can takeoff several hundred feet shorter and there is probably 10 mph difference in the stall speed. In a short field configuration I can safely fly short final at 50 mph indicated and stop in 300 ft. There is an 800 ft long ultralite field nearby that I visit regularly. I took a friend who owns a 52 B in there recently and he commented that there was no way his plane could operate out of there. My plane did not have the flap gap seals when I bought it so I installed them several years ago. They make a difference in climb rate, but noticed no speed difference. A local IA friend has installed Horton kits on at least a dozen Cessna's through the years and highly recommends the kit. His last 2 installations were to a 66 182 and a 67 337. Both owers are very pleased with the mod.

Tom Race
1946C

Joe Moilanen · Post by **Joe Moilanen** » Sat May 22, 2004 2:19 am

What about vortex generators? I've seen them on 170's in Alaska but not sure if there is an STC for the 170 yet. Getting about ready to start dropping trees to put in my 900' strip. Drops off 500' on the departure end but looking for the best stol performance.

Joe
4518C

pdb · Post by **pdb** » Sat May 22, 2004 5:23 am

Joe Moilanen wrote:What about vortex generators? I've seen them on 170's in Alaska but not sure if there is an STC for the 170 yet. Getting about ready to start dropping trees to put in my 900' strip. Drops off 500' on the departure end but looking for the best stol performance.

Joe
4518C

Joe:

There are STC'd VGs for 170s..I have a set and they are a really light mod that substantially improves low end performance with no noticeable difference at the top end.

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Sat May 22, 2004 2:46 pm

Jim S, if you're on board here,maybe you can give us a before-and-after critique on VG's for the B model.

Eric

doakes · Post by **doakes** » Sat May 22, 2004 4:19 pm

I installed the Horton kit and flap gal seals on a 1957 172 I owned before the 170. I thought the install was great and I used their wing tips too. They were not too droopy.

The stall speed was such that I could land in about 2-3 hundred feet in a slight wind with no problem. I have no experience with the sportsman, sounds nice also.

Was it worth it, maybe in a short field need or n emergency.

regards,
DaveO

N1277D · Post by **N1277D** » Sat May 22, 2004 5:29 pm

My 170A has both the HORTON STOL kit and VGs. They do make a difference, but nothing replaces horsepower to shorten Takeoff run and increase climb rate.

With these two mods the 170A will maintain altitude and aerlon control indicating 0 mph. The airspeed indicator is very inaccurate at the pitch attitudes, using GPS and correcting for wind effects it stalls in the high 30s with 30 degrees of flaps.

With the mods the 170A is more stable in rough air and permits a slower approach. But the climb rate is still 170 like and the takeoff run could be shorter with more hp

buchanan · Post by **buchanan** » Sun May 23, 2004 12:37 am

I installed the Sportsman this winter. The rivets supplied aren't what you need. I used cherry-max to the tune of $300+ extra. It took me about 60 hrs. but I'm not an AP but was working under the supervision of an IA. [I am,however, almost done building a Glastar]. When you buy the Sportsman the aileron gap seals are part of the kit. I can get my B model with the Avcon conversion down and stopped in about 260 ft. which is 100 ft. shorter than before the Sportsman. It still takes me at least 100 ft more to takeoff than land though. Our elevation is 3,800' and the 260' was on a 50 degree day with about 7 kts. of head-wind. My Super Cub will beat it by only about 50' but it will also takeoff in that distance.

Mike Vivion in FAI put VG's on his 180 hp B model and told me he wouldn't do it again.

I felt it was a worthwhile mod. and since I could do the work myself it wasn't all that expensive.

Regards, Buck Buchanan, Valier, MT...........Galena AK

N3474C · Post by **N3474C** » Mon May 24, 2004 6:54 am

I have the Horton kit on our '55 170B and it will also indicate 0 in slowflight with aileron control. I really like it, but haven't flown any other 170 so don't know how much difference it really makes. I'd love to see what VG's do.

One of the biggest factors for making short landings and takeoffs is weight. Duh, you think, but put a pound here, and another 20 there and it adds up quickly. From the tables in the owners manual, I calculated it to be about 1.4 feet per pound decrease in takeoff distance for the stock 170B. My grandpa used to do extensive bush flying in the Super Cub and Beaver and used 6in/lb as a rule of thumb very regularly. I'm not sure if I calculated it right for the 170.

In Valdez this year at the stol competition, I took the rear seat out (30lbs) and had half tanks. Calm winds, took off in 158' and landed in 174'.

These companies with the various stol kits will claim an X number decrease in stall speed, takeoff, and landing distances. But when it comes down to it, for us mainly airport to airport pilots, how often will that 7mph decrease in stall speed really make a difference? Don't get me wrong, I'm curious as heck to find out how much difference these kits really make, but I hope that stol kit isn't the deciding factor for any of us on whether or not to land at that airstrip down there. I think these kits are more for ego stroking than anything else. imho

I believe the key to short field success is knowing your aircraft like the back of your hand. Hit your spot! I mean a few feet, not 100! Become intimately familiar with the feel of your plane at altitude in slow flight, right up to the stall, at all different weights and configurations. Apply this feel to your approach. A good landing is 80% approach and 20% touchdown. I don't even look at the airspeed indicator once I turn final. And keep that ball smack dab between the rails! For a spin you gotta have one of two things, a stall and a ball out of center. You can eliminate that one fairly well by making that item a major part of your scan. Practice Practice Practice. It's amazing how big of a difference flying every day of the week versus just once or twice makes too. Even if this only means 20 minutes. Gotta try it to believe it.

It was very interesting watching the Super Cubs and other various aircraft in the competition. There were some pilots who knew their aircraft very well, and their aircraft performed remarkably. On the other hand, there were pilots who well, didn't

Keep the greasy side down,

Grins,

Chris

The International Cessna 170 Association

Horton STOL kit

Horton STOL kit

Horton STOL

Re: VGs & HORTON