Brakes- Cleveland

Exploreit2 · Post by **Exploreit2** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:51 pm

Alright guys, I have been looking at several C170 pictures.

Some have their brakes (calipers) on the front side of the landing gear while others have their calipers on the back side of the springs.

Is there a legal way of doing it or does it even matter? The brakes will work the same way. Some said that with wheel pants you can only install the calipers on the front. But some C170's with bigger wheels seem to put the brakes on the back side of the gear.

Just wondering if there is a right way of doing it or if it is personal preferance. I am expecting somebody to say that on grass fields, by having the calipers on the rear side you could build it up with grass but its behind the spings, so I don't know about that.

Post by **GAHorn** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:10 pm

I've looked thru all the installation instructions for the Cleveland conversion and can find no actual instruction on this other than to modify the backing/mounting plate to accept the different shape of the Cleveland unit. All the factory photo's I've seen show the brakes in the aft position as well. Since the factory originally installed the Goodyear units on the aft side of the axle, I believe it's most appropriate to install the Cleveland units aft as well. (Cessna also installed the McCauley units on the aft side on 172/182 aircraft.)
I don't mean to say that a forward mount is "incorrect" ...only that I've never seen a factory installation that way. The brake probably doesn't care.
As for debris, water, etc., ...I've heard that argument before, but I don't subscribe to it because it also places the brake caliper in danger of damage from striking objects and, more convincingly to me, Cleveland doubtlessly would have been specific to "switch" the mounting location from the original factory rear position, if there was any reason to do so.
My own Cleveland conversion is mounted on the rear, and fits the wheel fairing very nicely (as did the Goodyear) so that rumor is incorrect. An advantage to the rear mount is the brake lines are protected by the spring gear and no forward crossover plumbing is required. I suspect that is Cessna's most logical reason for the rear mount selection.

Exploreit2 · Post by **Exploreit2** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:38 am

Thank you George, now I know I am not crazy! I mainly wanted to know if I was the only one who noticed that not every C170 brakes are the same. As you stated I don't think the brake minds much as it will work the same.

I noticed a lot of people plumbing the tubing down the gear, then putting a stainless hose to the brake facing forward. To me, even though I am a huge stainless fan, I don't care for that as much because the hose really sticks out and can easily get caught on debris or grass. I do a lot of off-field flying and I prefer to have the gear protect my tubing with no worries of a rock, weeds, ect. pulling on any thing brake related.

So from what I gather it all comes down to personal preference. I know that most of you guys probably got your plane with the brakes working and that was that. But, what are some other thoughts on this. Heck, maybe I am just thinking too much into this.

What started this all is that I just got done bending new brake lines and a day after it was all done I noticed in some pictures that I put mine on (compared to the pictuers) backwards. I was a little mad because I didnt' have anymore tubing left to make new lines and I thought I was going made because I was sure I made the news just like the old ones were. I don't get how you would bend the solid lines if the brakes were mounted forward. I guess you make the bend go under the spring and bring it back up.

Do most of you reading this have solid brakes lines or rubber hose down by the wheel?

Anyway, I am going to go and find a more interesting topic to talk about!

Post by **GAHorn** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:18 pm

I've seen brakes mount forward, with a hard line running over the top of the gear leg. It "chattered" considerably and also wore the linings unequally, not as a function of brake location I don't think, but as a function of rigid tubing holding the caliper too firmly thereby not allowing it to "float". I think rubber hoses such as AeroQuip are the best thing, whichever way you mount them.

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:38 pm

FWIW, my ragwing has double-puck clevelands on 180 gear legs & the calipers are mounted forward of the gear legs. The solid brake lines run down the trailing edge of the gear legs, with a short length of stainless flex line crossing the inboard side of the gear legs to get to the brake caliper.
I have the approved 337,and a copy of the STC for installing these brakes on a 180. But I don't have a copy of the cleveland installation drawings referenced in the STC (#50-36 & 20-128 revision D).

Eric

jlwild · Post by **jlwild** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 3:17 am

Based on your original question, checked my Cleveland Brake conversion today, and Yes calipers are mounted forward of the spring. A stainless flex line, +/- 12 inches long, connects to the solid line on the trailing edge of the main gear spring. The flex line then crosses over the top of the spring and connects to the caliper.

Reviewed all my installation paperwork (Cleveland STC and Approved 337), and there is no mention in the text or drawings on which side of the springs the caliper should be located.

The conversion came with my plane when I bought it and I have owned it for +/- 20 years. Have had no trouble with the set up, so don't think I will change it now. However, your original question was a good one and it made me check my brakes. THANKS

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:41 am

I got on the cleeveland website & used the ''request" feature to ask for copies of the two installation drawings I mentioned. We'll see what happens.....

Eric

spiro · Post by **spiro** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:00 am

we've been through this recently (topic "brake calipers", June '03).

double-puck Clevelands installed IAW STC SA63GL for 180's, kit #199-62, are to be installed on the front side, per the Installation Drawing #50-36. There's a big arrow on the drawing pointing "fwd". The hose routing is also specified.

I thought the single-pucks also mounted in the front, but I don't have a copy of that STC in front of me.

doug8082a · Post by **doug8082a** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:07 pm

My single-puck Clevelands are mounted are the rear of the spring with about 9 or 12 inches of flexible brake line connecting the brake ass'y to the solid brake line.

mrpibb · Post by **mrpibb** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 1:04 pm

After reading my stc, all it said was to install the caliper on the torque plate, and the drawing dosn't specify direction. I guess It comes down to how your torque plate was oriented prior to the mod. For what it's worth mine is aft.

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:16 pm

spiro wrote:we've been through this recently (topic "brake calipers", June '03).

double-puck Clevelands installed IAW STC SA63GL for 180's, kit #199-62, are to be installed on the front side, per the Installation Drawing #50-36. There's a big arrow on the drawing pointing "fwd". The hose routing is also specified.

I thought the single-pucks also mounted in the front, but I don't have a copy of that STC in front of me.

Some solid info,thanks Spiro. Do you also have a copy of drawing 20-128 rev D, as referenced in the STC?

Eric

Harold Holiman · Post by **Harold Holiman** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:31 pm

The double pucks on my 1953 180 are installed forward as per the information supplied by Spiro.

Harold
N92CP

spiro · Post by **spiro** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:53 am

zero.one.victor wrote:Do you also have a copy of drawing 20-128 rev D, as referenced in the STC?

eric,

yes I do, Rev. F. It's a detail x-section of the wheel/brake assbly. Both drawings are included in the installation manual that comes w/ the 199-62 kit.

now that I've pulled out the paper I see I need to correct a previous statement; Dwg 50-36 has an arrow pointing *aft*, not fwd. It also shows a 12" flex line between caliper and rigid brake line.

- paul