The International Cessna 170 Association

Hi All,

Looking for member input on the following discrepancies:

1. Wingtip strobes - I have combination Nav/strobe units in the wingtips, could these have been installed originally? No documentation.

2. Logbook entry "Manifold Pressure Gauge Installed". No record of removal.

3. Logbook entry "Flex-o-prop installed". No record of removal, and not coincident with manifold pressure gauge.

4. Several logbook entries on windshield replacement, none mention center strap removal/STC but the aircraft does not have one.

5. Aircraft has modified exhaust (not through cowling, old cowling holes patched) but no records other than logbook entries for exhaust replacement.

Thanks for any input/suggestions!

Bob

1. No they are not original as they probably did not exist when your plane was built. Figure out what you have installed and see if there is an STC available for it. If so acquire it. Have IA insure what is already installed is installed per the STC and complete paperwork. Writeup would be something like. Strobe X found installed by someone unknown on an unknown date. Installation and work meets STC XXX. If you can't find a STC then you have two choices. Uninstall the strobes. Attempt to get a one time approval for what is installed.

2. Have IA make a log entry stating manifold pressure gauge previously installed on date, was removed by persons unknown on an unknown date.

3 Same as 2 but substitute Flex-o-prop for manifold pressure gauge.

4. This is most serious. If the center strap was removed and no means to hold the windshield in place at the top of the fuselage was used, you probably have a dangerous aircraft. That windshield could pop out at any time and you don't want to know what kind of aerodynamic changes that can make. It likely won't be pretty. Figure this out right away. What was actually done to remove the windshield. Hopefully an STC was followed but not filed or logged. You can then get permission to use the STC from the holder, many of these are free with a windshield which at this point someone would have bought, get the paperwork done again by persons unknown on an unknown date but per the STC. if nothing was done to secure the top of the windshield I would suggest installing a center strap as the windshield you have has no means to be secured at the top otherwise.

5. Likely either Bartone or Benham mods. Bartone is the only one left. Chances are your installation will meet the current STC he sells as he has seemed to combine Benham's which he bought. Talk to Pat Bartone. Or of course you could try to get your own approval or remove them.

Hi Bruce,

Thank you, this is exactly the kind of information I was looking for.

I only happened across the windshield issue a few days ago while perusing another topic. It does appear to have some reinforcement across the top center of windshield.

Any idea who has such an STC? It appears from the record the currently installed windshield was from Great Lakes Aero.

Thanks,

Bob

Great Lakes Aero:

http://www.glapinc.com/

Thanks Bruce,

From reading the STC/installation instructions it appears that this was properly done, just need to get it verified and documented.

Thanks again,

Bob

Any contact information for Pat Bartone? I see from the STC I see Pasquale Bartone, Bolton CT. My home state.

Thanks,

Bob

Bob,
If you think some of your aircraft 337 records may be missing you can order them from the FAA. Here's a link.

rnealon1 wrote:Any contact information for Pat Bartone? I see from the STC I see Pasquale Bartone, Bolton CT. My home state.

Thanks,

Bob

Pat and Sybil are listed in the Directory. (Posting personal/contact info in a public/internet without the owner’s permission is not a good idea.)

gahorn wrote:

rnealon1 wrote:Any contact information for Pat Bartone? I see from the STC I see Pasquale Bartone, Bolton CT. My home state.

Thanks,

Bob

Pat and Sybil are listed in the Directory. (Posting personal/contact info in a public/internet without the owner’s permission is not a good idea.)

A PM was sent to Bob earlier with the Bartone's contact info, which was publicly listed in their add for their pipes, but I failed to post notice I sent the PM.

Great Topic.

Does your required documentation match your airplane as it sits on your hanger/tiedown pad?.

Think about it.

You see your aircraft as a wonderful assemblage of parts yielding your favorite airplane.

However the FAA looks at your aircraft as a book. Yes a book.

Required regulations (lots) help save lives.

How is your required paperwork/documentation? Do you have it in aircraft at every flight?

Apparently a few ramp checks. Pilot proffered its all on the ipad , Here take a look.
No I want the actual required documentation. Was he talking paper?

Has Commerce took its Eye off the Ball?

Keep in mind that documentation REQUIRED to be on-board the aircraft (in the U.S.)* are:

1-Airworthiness Certificate
2-Registration Certificate
3-Airplane Flight Manual (AFM-a one-page/front/back document for our 170s)
4-Equipment List/Wt&Bal

The owner should keep the equipment list up-to-date. The list should include: 1-the item description, 2- the item location (Arm) and 3-the item installed weight. The list can be part of the wt/bal document but must be kept up-to-date.

(Which reminds me to update my own since the installation of the uAvionix SkyBeacon and SkySensor...same ARM as the nav/strobe lights, negligible wt change... but the removal of the Whelen strobe pwr-supply makes a recordable wt/bal chg.).

Have you revised YOURS?

* Crossing a ADIZ/INT’L opn’s may require radio station and operators permits.

Since this topic is still going, here are some more items I am wondering about:

1. New panel installation - documented in logbook as installed but no 337/STC.
2. Circuit breakers - not documented.
3. Push to talk switches wired in and attached to yokes - not documented.
4. Low voltage indicator on panel - not documented.
5. Vernier-type throttle and mixture controls - installation/replacement documented in logbook but uncertain of basis - PMA?
6. Inertial type secondary seat stop - documented in logbook but no 337/STC.
7. Belly drain - documented in logbook but no 337/STC. I don't see this in the parts catalogue diagram.

As always appreciate any input.

Thanks,

Bob

rnealon1 wrote:Since this topic is still going, here are some more items I am wondering about:

1. New panel installation - documented in logbook as installed but no 337/STC.
2. Circuit breakers - not documented.
3. Push to talk switches wired in and attached to yokes - not documented.
4. Low voltage indicator on panel - not documented.
5. Vernier-type throttle and mixture controls - installation/replacement documented in logbook but uncertain of basis - PMA?
6. Inertial type secondary seat stop - documented in logbook but no 337/STC.
7. Belly drain - documented in logbook but no 337/STC. I don't see this in the parts catalogue diagram.

As always appreciate any input.

Thanks,
.
Bob

Well... you and your AP/IA has some documentation to accomplish. The Belly drain is a simple “minor alteration” replacing a drain into an existing drain plug IMO. The secondary seat stop is a cessna SB and easily inspected/documented.
Items 1 thru 5 may be more problematical depending upon your AP’IA’s view. It’s not that your airplane is unairworthy, it’s just not properly documented and the paperwork needs addressing.

What George is trying to say is 1-5, specially 2-5, are common items most often considered minor alterations. Depending on what is meant by a new instrument panel, that could be a minor alteration, but it might also be considered a major alteration. For example if the new instrument panel required a new T control for the yokes because it is a center stack design, this would be a major alteration.

As before, all this stuff needs to be inspected to insure the workmanship and material is appropriate and it needs to be documented that it was done at some time by someone unknown and that it meets the appropriate standards. If a minor alteration only a log entry. If considered a major alteration, then appropriate approvals sought.

George and Bruce,

As always thank you for the information/advice. My first objective of course is safety (my family flies in this thing!). I feel better now that the safety related items such as the windshield (Great Lakes Aero Products STC) have been confirmed and will get to work on the documentation with my IA.

The instrument panel doesn't appear to have been a major alteration/center stack installation (see photo) but what is the fastest way to check?

Thanks,

Bob