The International Cessna 170 Association

No more switching off the Mode-C when busting altitude either. (I've only heard of this happening.)

Since purchasing a Scout unit I have had numerous occasions to use the unit. Last Saturday, coming back from a breakfast flyin, the visabilty wasn't great. Heard another aircraft report they were 10 miles from the airport I had just left and we were probably 7 miles away. Couldn't see much at a distance, but there on ForeFlight was the other plane at approximately my altitude and almost on my direct route. Called him to verify where he was in reference to a power plant I was approaching and fortunately our paths wouldn't have met, but it was nice to know in advance where he was prior to getting the warning on my FF/iPad. Some I have talked with say they have a circuit breaker that could be pulled to shut off the ADS-B. While one would hope not to enter an area they weren't supposed to enter, pulling the cb might keep one from being caught, particularly if the transponder were also off. Of course 170 members wouldn't be guilty of such anyway

I was reading the ADS-B regs the other day and noticed that 14 CFR 91.225(f) states, "Each person operating an aircraft equipped with ADS-B Out must operate this equipment in the transmit mode at all times." Others can decide whether someone can pull the circuit braker while in the transmit mode and still be in compliance.

MoonlightVFR wrote:Just read a post that currently 30,000 A/C in compliance w ADS B.

A little dismay was expressed. Pilots are waiting.

I'm not surprised.

1. The price keeps coming down.
2. You only need it if you fly in Class C or higher. You can do a whole lotta flying, to a whole lotta airports, without touching Class C.
3. Technology is solving installation concerns.

That being said after KGRB Approach tried to run me into Delta RJ this weekend, I'm really starting to think TIS-B traffic wouldn't be such a bad thing.

DEM

flyboy122 wrote:You only need it if you fly in Class C or higher.

You'll also need ADSB to fly within 30nm of a big Class B airport, even outside of Class A, B, or C. Same as the transponder requirement. Here's the list of the 30-mile veil Class B airports.

Atlanta, GA (Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport)
Baltimore, MD (Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport)
Boston, MA (General Edward Lawrence Logan International Airport)
Camp Springs, MD (Joint Base Andrews)
Chantilly, VA (Washington Dulles International Airport)
Charlotte, NC (Charlotte/Douglas International Airport)
Chicago, IL (Chicago-O'Hare International Airport)
Cleveland, OH (Cleveland-Hopkins International Airport)
Covington, KY (Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport)
Dallas, TX (Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport)
Denver, CO (Denver International Airport)
Detroit, MI (Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport)
Honolulu, HI (Honolulu International Airport)
Houston, TX (George Bush Intercontinental/Houston Airport)
Houston, TX (William P. Hobby Airport)
Kansas City, MO (Kansas City International Airport)
Las Vegas, NV (McCarran International Airport)
Los Angeles, CA (Los Angeles International Airport)
Memphis, TN (Memphis International Airport)
Miami, FL (Miami International Airport)
Minneapolis, MN (Minneapolis-St. Paul International/Wold-Chamberlain Airport)
Newark, NJ (Newark Liberty International Airport)
New Orleans, LA (Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport)
New York, NY (John F. Kennedy International Airport)
New York, NY (LaGuardia Airport)
Orlando, FL (Orlando International Airport)
Philadelphia, PA (Philadelphia International Airport)
Phoenix, AZ (Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport)
Pittsburgh, PA (Pittsburgh International Airport)
St. Louis, MO (Lambert-St. Louis International Airport)
Salt Lake City, UT (Salt Lake City International Airport)
San Diego, CA (Miramar Marine Corps Air Station)
San Diego, CA (San Diego International Airport)
San Francisco, CA (San Francisco International Airport)
Seattle, WA (Seattle-Tacoma International Airport)
Tampa, FL (Tampa International Airport)
Washington, DC (Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport)

And THAT is the BIGGEST BOONDOGGLE OF ALL!

ADS-B is supposed to provide ATC coverage for aircraft outside radar coverage.

By DEFINITION... Class C airspace HAS terminal radar.... and anyone operating beneath the Class C floor/within the 30 nm veil.... already must have an altitude encoding transponder. IT IS NOT LIKE THEY WON'T ALREADY KNOW YOU'RE DOWN THERE!!!! .... so WHY does an airplane with no intention of entering Class C must have ADS-B OUT...??????? This rule will deny access to many hundreds of smaller airports whose traffic has almost NO effect on the primary airport.

And why did they decide 10,000 MSL was the upper limit for non-equipped aircraft? Why not 12,500 where oxygen is still not required in order to accommodate mountainous areas..... or the Continental Airspace floor.... 14,500 MSL?

It's true government OVER-REACH , IMO.

And AOPA does not stand for what it once did. They are all IN on the ADS-B thing. IT now stands for the Avionics Organizations Promotion Association.

My airplane is based just outside the Philly 30 mile ring. About 15 from the Allentown Class C.

I'm still not buying ADS-B out till it's less than $500. I will only fly where I can if I fly at all.

Sounds like neither one of you twos will be Garmin-ing up tomorrow!

ADSB is just a way to protect the top one percent in their biz jets flying around with pilots who have their heads buried in the cockpit. I will have to install it or quit flying. I will probably install it but I bet the number of aircraft never flown again will increase significantly in 2020. Bill K

c170b53 wrote:Sounds like neither one of you twos will be Garmin-ing up tomorrow!

I dislike Garmin products. The best thing that could happen to Garmin is competition. I don't see much competition for them in the future. That is truly sad.

Once again it is amazing how economics and common sense do not mix. I remember in the 70's when ELTs were mandated. The AOPA among other organizations were outraged about the cost and government intervention making aviation more costly. Nothing mentioned about safety. It was a long time ago when they were going to make leaded gas unavailable. AOPA again did nothing but now is protecting your rights. They are a knee jerk association. I spoke with Phil Boyer, then president of AOPA after a meeting where they vehemently were opposed to 406 ELT's. I asked him why he would be opposed to something that would narrow the search corridor and have immediate notification. His reply was "We are a member driven association". In other words, if the group doesn't want to spend the bucks for safety the AOPA is on their side.

When doing flight reviews I always teach individuals to use their radios and get flight following. Amazing the number of close encounters they didn't know they were having. We have even gotten heading changes. Flight following works guys even if you don't have a transponder. I have been given headings in airplanes people had without transponders and we got excellent flight following and missed seeing many airplanes pointed out.

Bottom line is yes we need to evolve. ADS-B is a good thing. 406 is a good thing. NO one even listens to 121.5. I have been in contact with the Air Guard and they do not even respond to 121.5 signals unless someone calls in and alerts them that a plane is overdue. Then it takes several sweeps to narrow down a huge search area. With 406 one pass and they have you within one kilometer...that is .61 tenth of a mile for the metrically incompetent.

I flew with some guys this year in aircraft equipped with ADS-B and could not believe the number of aircraft we saw on the screen. I also could not believe the number we saw that either did not have transponders or had them off.

Bottom line is we need to make things safer. This does come with a cost that manny cannot or are not willing to absorb but in the long run is good for everyone flying.

Fly safe

Bruce Fenstermacher wrote:My airplane is based just outside the Philly 30 mile ring. About 15 from the Allentown Class C.

I'm still not buying ADS-B out till it's less than $500. I will only fly where I can if I fly at all.

Which is EXACTLY the way Airlines, Business Aviation, and Gov't WANT. I wish I/We were brave enough to violate the rules en masse to disable their idea within/below Mode-C veils and up to Continental floor space.

Marathonrunner wrote:
I flew with some guys this year in aircraft equipped with ADS-B and could not believe the number of aircraft we saw on the screen. I also could not believe the number we saw that either did not have transponders or had them off.

Bottom line is we need to make things safer. This does come with a cost that manny cannot or are not willing to absorb but in the long run is good for everyone flying.

I’ve evolved with aviation in the last 36 years and have seen advances that improve safety. I agree that ADSB is one that can improve our safety. I will be doing a lot of my flying with my family in the crowded North East corridor and I’ll take all the help I can get. BTW I use flight following as much as possible as well.

I’m saving my coins now while I’m still working to install the L3 Lynx 9000+.

I have heard the airlines are proposing an exemption for themselves because they will not be compliant by 2020. Don't know how true that is. Of course GA will not be granted an exemption.

I went ahead and bit the bullet and had a Garmin 345 installed in the 170. So far, I like what I see, especially on the iPhone and iPad, but realize like autopilots and fuel computers, it will get you in trouble if you rely on it absolutely without realizing the shortcomings. Lots of non-ADS-B traffic still out there. Keep up the traffic scan.

I had a Stratus unit installed when I purchased 62C two months ago and I really like the Stratus in/out capabilities when coupled with an iPad. I fly in a very busy training environment in the Atlanta area and it works really well for situational awareness. Supplement it with flight following on cross countries and it is a great combination. Amazing how many more aircraft show up now.

One thing of note, plan on a replacement/upgrade of an antenna when the new ADS goes in. Most combos include a new antenna as part of the package. On 62C I opted to upgrade an existing antenna rather than use the one supplied - just didn't want another hole punched in the lovely lady - and because the second older comm antenna no longer matched anymore, replaced that too. Better radio reception now and I am ready should I ever put a GPS in (gawd, no), but replacing two sticky uppy things did add to the overall cost.

I have noticed, however, that there are a number of public flight-following websites that now have intricate tracking info on me publicly available, pretty much down to the detail of when I pick my nose in flight. Not sure how I feel about that one.