The International Cessna 170 Association

A little confused about who is required to install ADS B. Anyone installed ADS B in their aircraft yet?

Jim Sheely
N1337D

Unfortunately, all aircraft with an electrical system are required when flying within controlled airspace.

If you currently need a transponder then you'll need ADS-B.

It is a little more specific. Here is the references.

If I fly in airspace that does not require a transponder today, will I still be able to fly there without ADS-B Out?
For the most part, ADS-B Out will be required in the same airspace where transponders are required. However, to be sure of the regulatory requirements it is best to check 14 CFR § 91.225 for ADS-B-designated airspace and 14 CFR § 91.215 for transponder-designated airspace in the US.

I was wondering how many 170 owners have complied and what brand equipment did you buy and what did it cost you for the equipment and the installation?

I am planning to go with a NAV Worx ADS B in and out. In reviewing what I needed and talking to Sandia the manufactures of the STX 165 combination Transponder and Mode C encoder I am now running in the 170A. They are recommending the Nav Worx. I will be able to have traffic shown on my I fly 700 for less than $2500 dollars. It is only a $25 dollar cable from I fly to wire it into the i fly 700. I originally had not planned to have ADS B in but the cost is so minimal for the NAV WORX (relatively speaking)that it is a no brainer and it has ADS B in whether I want it or not. I have to buy an additional GPS antenna for the NAV works but it does not need to be a WAAS GPS antenna. So one of the old Non WAAS antennas removed when upgrading other owners Garmin GNS 430's to WAAS several years back has fallen into my possession. I probably will not get it done in time to be able to get the $500 rebate being offered by the FAA's program. But I might. After all $500 dollars is $500.00. I also have to purchase an additional transponder antenna and it has to be seperated by 5 Ft from the main transponder antenna. If you already have some sort of WAAS GPS primary radio there are other options and you would or may not require the additional antennas. But because I have no other panel mounted GPS source I require the additional antennas.

I have reviewed most of the information on AOPA's links to the subject.
https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-an ... ship/ads-b.
There are mutiple resorce links at the bottom of the AOPA article above.
The short description
The FAA has mandated that by January 1, 2020, ADS-B Out capabilities will be required to fly in most airspace where a Mode C transponder is required today. That includes Class A, B, or C airspace; within the 30-nm Mode C ring around a Class B primary airport; and most Class E airspace at or above 10,000 feet msl—as well as certain airspace above the Gulf of Mexico.

What that means to me is that because my home airport AUBURN S50 is under the Class "B" airspace surrounding Seattle unless I have ADS B out I am grounded. I do not have to have ADS B In in any case I might fly.

Metal Master wrote:I am planning to go with a NAV Worx ADS B in and out. In reviewing what I needed and talking to Sandia the manufactures of the STX 165 combination Transponder and Mode C encoder I am now running in the 170A. They are recommending the Nav Worx. I will be able to have traffic shown on my I fly 700 for less than $2500 dollars. It is only a $25 dollar cable from I fly to wire it into the i fly 700. I

I would hold off on the NavWorx ADS-B as they are currently going thru some certification issues with the FAA. I recently bought one and put in for the FAA $500 rebate which was approved, but then was advised a few days later that the NavWorx ADS600B did not meet the mandate and would not be approved. NavWorx is currently trying to negotiate with the FAA Fort Worth Certification office to resolve the issue. In the mean time I am halfway thru the install and do not know if I have an approved unit or a paper weight.

The answer to his question is no one is required to have ADS-B yet.

And I have no plans to ever buy a ADS-B out until the price is under $500. And I fly around under and sometimes over areas requiring a transponder (I won't be able to do fly over it without ADS-B).

When I get my airplane back I plan on going with the Stratus ESG by Appareo. About $3k for the box and there's a local shop that will do the install for $600. For ASD-B in, I already have a Stratus 2 and Foreflight. I live about 2 miles inside the mode C veil around KDTW, so I'll eventually need it in any case. Even if I didn't, I would install anyway just to not be cut out of passing over/through class B and C airspace. Hopefully I will get the airplane back and be able to schedule the install in time to take advantage of the rebate.

I was at a seminar and the advice was whatever you buy, buy it from a manufacturer dealer and have them install due to the programming and installation since they are familiar and trained with the equipment. I am going to wait until I see more equipment choices at a reasonable prices. Anyone can install with probably more labor dollars if they can read wiring diagrams.

John

I've been using the Garmin GDL39 3D ADS-B receiver with my Aera 660 GPS and Garmin Pilot on my iPhone for a backup. The traffic alerts are great. The other day I was coming home and I had a Cessna 172 1000 feet directly below me and I never would have seen him unless I had ADS-B. I was on top of him and he didn't see me either.

I am planning to upgrade my Garmin GTX 327 transponder with a GTX 345 in the future for ADS-B "Out" capabilities. Then I can get rid of the GDL 39 as well. I'm planning on doing the installation myself.
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/prod140949.html

Every time I hear as story such as 'there I was and there was this guy, we would have never seen each other...', I just have to wonder how many 100s of thousands of times this has happened yet few mid airs occur. I wonder if the magic ADS-B squawking box will reduce those few mid air collisions. I wonder how many more near mid airs will take place as more people will rely on technology to work rather than look out the window. I wonder how long it will be till your thought of as crazy, careless or reckless for flying without a working squawk box?

Things I wonder about.

1,000 feet vertical separation? Of course you'd didn't see him because he was no factor. The ADSB traffic alert feature in this case was a distraction by telling you useless information. Had the thing stayed quiet and alerted you when your trajectories we're converging in the next 10 minutes...that would be useful. but it doesn't do that (FLARM does).

Oh, and it wont do you any good when that Piper Cub is 10 feet away from you.

I had the chance to fly in a 172 G-1000 ADSB XYZ-123 airplane over the weekend. I had to chuckle when the damned thing was giving us emergency collision warnings on short final for the two planes in the run up area.

For IFR traffic or flying INSIDE Class B - ADS-B makes a lot of sense.
Transponders inside the Mode C veil make sense too. The altitude information tells the controller that you're NOT in Class B but rather under it so they can pretty much ignore you. (or violate you when you bust airspace)

The ADS-B OUT mandate for everyone else is a waste.

The jury is out in my case. I realize I will have to make a substantial investment by 2020 if I want to fly in airspace around Class B & C. The vast majority of my flying is outside these areas.There have been a couple of times when someone flying with me had an ADS-B IN portable unit and we were flying to a busy flyin breakfast or other flyin when it was good to know where other planes were due to congestion. Flying with another whizbang gadget, while probably a bit safer, just adds to cockpit clutter and something to distract from, as Bruce says, what is going on outside. Works a lot better when there is a second person there to share the flying duties. I am still hoping that some mfg will come up with a "reasonably" priced unit that can be installed for a lot less than the cost of the unit itself. I don't consider $3,000-to the sky is the limit pricing to be reasonable!

The traffic alerts provide a false sense of security because not all aircraft will be identified.
That is even more true when you are outside of the areas where ADSB is required.