Mike Haywood wrote:Hi Bruce,
I joined the TIC170 yesterday. Sorry if I'm being a bit thick but I've been trying to see where to ask questions and get some information.Im trying to find how to obtain an STC and source an engine mount to fit the Franklin 220 motor in my 52 170B. Any help pointed in the right direction would be appreciated.Its nice to now be part of the family even if a long way a way as I'm in the UK.
Thanks in advance,
Mike,
The Franklin engine, while from all reports I've heard, a decent engine, has not been actively supported for quite some time with new parts. Occasionally you hear of organizations who have announced support is coming but I wonder if it ever has arrived. There are groups, mainly Stinson owners who's plane have the Franklin 6A4-165-B3 engine, who seem to know the most about where to find those last remaining parts and support. But for the most part most airplane owners who know of the Franklin consider it pretty much a dead engine.
There are a few 170s with the Franklin installed. The Franklin 6A4-165-B3 engine (165 hp model) was listed on the 170 TCDS as an alternate engine. By all accounts the 165hp engine on the 170 is a heck of a combination and a 220 would be a fantastic performer.
About all I know is probably what you know from a Google search of the web:
It would seem from the article at the second link that the website at the first link is old. Yet at least the copywrite date at the bottom of that site has been updated to 2015 so who knows.
Good luck.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Welcome to the association Mike. A local, well actually in CYCD has the 220 Franklin in his. I tried to follow him once in my 160 hp lycoming B and he was gone before I knew it. Nice looking install and if the engine was supported, a conversion that would be desirable.
Is your plane based in the UK? Could you tell us a bit about your home field?
I am a bit unclear on what the deal is with Franklin engines, as it appears as there are a couple of outfits that purport themselves as being Franklin Engines.
One is the outfit in Colorado that Bruce mentioned, the other outfit is Franklin Aerospace located here in North Carolina that some of my family members have some involvement with. My cousin, Robert Still, is the owner of www.southernaero.com, and he specializes in Franklin overhauls with some work dedicated to restoration services as well. Robert and his father Dale have long been Stinson fanatics and by virtue of that, Franklin fanatics as well. They know the engines as well or better than anyone else I've met, but I think they still have some issues from time to time getting parts.
They wouldn't be any help with converting a 170 to a 220 Franklin, but they can provide support for the engine side of things.
Bruce Fenstermacher wrote:Ryan, you don't understand "the deal" because you seem to have an inside track on a few of the "in the know" people when it comes to Franklins.
By unclear on the deal, I meant who owns what. There are two or three companies that represent themselves as Franklin. I'm just as confused as the rest of us.
Rumor has it the owner of the Franklin type certificate in Poland will be at Sun N Fun with big news on parts availability. We have heard it before so we will see if anything new is said or offered.
Mike Roe
Hi Jim,thanks for the warm welcome.Yes I live in the UK a small town called bewdley in Worcestershire.Not far from the Malvern hills which you've probably not heard of but might be a reference.There is only seven 170's in the uk and I've owned mine about three years now and love it.Think I will be the custodian for as long as I can.Im based at a microlight strip called pound green airfield in Bewdley.Its 400yrds grass and surrounded by the wire forest.I mainly fly into small farm strips around the local area,Wales,Herefordshire ect not really into big exspances of Tarmac.This is the reason I'd like to fit the Franklin motor.I have an opportunity to buy a mid houred 220 the early motor with VP prop at sensible money.Now that EASA has relaxed the the rules a little this means the CAA will allow STC's over here.Until this point you couldn't change anything it would cost thousands in approvals even though it was accepted over there with you guys.So if I could find an STC and motor mount that would be fantastic.I know everyone expresses concerns over parts but some how this guy has had this engine kept up together and flying since 1975 but I completely take on board about parts availability.Any help would be most appreciated in finding A mount and STC.just for reference my 170 is G-BCLS formally N8094A 1952 B model serial number 20946.
Thanks again and hi to all in TIC170 association.
Cheers Mike.
I am surprized to hear that someone in Poland had any risidual rights to the Franklin engine. It was my understanding that the Franklin engine was being built by the big Polish company PZL which was also building a lot of turbine engine parts for Pratt and Whitney and P&W then bought that engine division of PZL. P&W has zero interest in reciprocating engines any longer and simply allowed the Franklin division to die.
There sure seems to be a lot of stories over the franklin engines.
When their air-cooled-engine automobile business crapped out, they went into the aircraft engine game. It was called "Air Cooled Engines" or something for a time. Then it got bought up by Tucker to power his Tucker automobile which also quickly crapped out. It then went back into building small aircraft engines again. It died out again and reportedly was bought by PZL in Poland who built them for a while.
Charles Lindbergh was given an air cooled 1928 Franklin touring sedan after his flight to Paris and he drove it for twelve years until he went to work for Henry Ford as a consultant at the Willow Run factory building B-24 bombers for WWII.
You are correct. When Pratt took over PZL they sold the Franklin rights to a group in Poland. So far only talk and no support. The main individual said starting at SNF things are looking better as far as parts support. We will see, we have heard it before. Keep our fingers crossed.
Mike Roe
Mike haywood 69 wrote:Hi Jim,thanks for the warm welcome.Yes I live in the UK a small town called bewdley in Worcestershire.Not far from the Malvern hills which you've probably not heard of but might be a reference.There is only seven 170's in the uk and I've owned mine about three years now and love it.Think I will be the custodian for as long as I can.Im based at a microlight strip called pound green airfield in Bewdley.Its 400yrds grass and surrounded by the wire forest.I mainly fly into small farm strips around the local area,Wales,Herefordshire ect not really into big exspances of Tarmac.This is the reason I'd like to fit the Franklin motor.I have an opportunity to buy a mid houred 220 the early motor with VP prop at sensible money.Now that EASA has relaxed the the rules a little this means the CAA will allow STC's over here.Until this point you couldn't change anything it would cost thousands in approvals even though it was accepted over there with you guys.So if I could find an STC and motor mount that would be fantastic.I know everyone expresses concerns over parts but some how this guy has had this engine kept up together and flying since 1975 but I completely take on board about parts availability.Any help would be most appreciated in finding A mount and STC.just for reference my 170 is G-BCLS formally N8094A 1952 B model serial number 20946.
Thanks again and hi to all in TIC170 association.
Cheers Mike.
G-BCLS is my favorite 170 flying in the UK. Beautiful airplane- do you have some more pictures of her?
Hi Ryan that is praise indeed and gratefully received.She is a lovely airplane and testament to her previous owner
Norman Simpson who did a top job restoring her to how she is now.Norman is a cracking guy and has been flying 170's
For 30yrs I believe owning BCLS for 10 yrs before letting me buy her.He has been flying and still is ,"storming Norman"
G-APVS for about 30yrs and tells me it's been the most faithful thing in his life apart from his wife. I'll try and upload some pictures but you could check out Moosable69 on YouTube theres a video of me landing at my home field pound green
It's not very exciting but maybe worth a look.
Any of you guys got any idea where I could get an STC and engine mount from??? Must be some info somewhere.
Cheers again
Mike.
I maintain a 170 with the 220 Franklin. Big problem is doing the 500 hour inspection on the magnetos. They are about a half inch or 12mm from the firewall. The only way to remove them is to remove the engine from the firewall. I have flown and maintained many Franklins and it is a nice smooth running engine. The installation on the 170 that I have seen leaves a bit to be desired
I'll try and upload some pictures but you could check out Moosable69 on YouTube theres a video of me landing at my home field pound green