Dear Members:
Having a little trouble with my landings. I have had 15 hours of training from a real good flight instructor who has flow tailwheels and all sorts of airplanes. I learned the wheel landings and the three point landings. Three point landings are no problem if the wind is light, but if there is a slight cross wind and the wind is up to 20 knots---- I have run off the run way twice, first time no damage, second time, yesterday, not so lucky. Scraped a wing tip and bucked the out board wing and a little of the elevator. Makes you feel awful doesn't it? Has anyone else every run off the runway, ground looped etc? It is always in the direction of the cross wind. Should I just go to three point lands and forget the wheels landing no matter what the wind? I have 400 hours in a Cessna 150 and about 80 hours in the 170B. Maybe I just don't get it and should go back to the tri-gear. I do love the airplane but my wife won't fly with me anymore unless we don't have to land!!! Help--------------Koop
Landings
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
Hi Koop,
Hate to hear about the bent metal, hang in there. This would be much better suited in the Pilot Lounge, and you could search there for great replies on this topic. The person that will probably move this for you has made some really good points on your questions.
Never ground looped, but stayed away from 20 knot crosswinds for the most part during the early hours of tailwheel time. Not for sure if you are describing a 20 knot crosswind as slightly off the runway heading, or as a slight crosswind. A 20 knot crosswind 90 degrees to the runway is not a slight crosswind. Also, a gusting crosswind is much more of a challenge than a steady crosswind. The same goes for the airport - those with gaps between large buildings on the side the wind is coming from are trickier than runways that don't have the swirling winds.
Practicing in 8 - 10 knot crosswinds and learning how to plant your upwind wheel, and learning how to do whatever it takes to keep the runway center stripe passing thru the prop hub and out the tailwheel during wheel landings is helpful. Look far down the runway instead of outside the nose, and make sure you are tracking straight before allowing the tail to come down. Tracking on one wheel while you are gathering up control of the airplane requires the skill of a precision approach and a controlled decent rate so the wheel stays planted at touch down. You will want to add an increasing amount of aileron in to the wind as you are slowing down to keep weight on the upwind wheel. And of course, you will be dancing on the rudder pedals the whole time. During those early hours, I developed the habit of on final, taking my feet off of the pedals and rapidly moving them up and down to get them ready and to remind myself to be ready for fast feet.
The stronger/gustier the crosswind, the stronger my preference is for a wheel landing, IMHO.
Hate to hear about the bent metal, hang in there. This would be much better suited in the Pilot Lounge, and you could search there for great replies on this topic. The person that will probably move this for you has made some really good points on your questions.
Never ground looped, but stayed away from 20 knot crosswinds for the most part during the early hours of tailwheel time. Not for sure if you are describing a 20 knot crosswind as slightly off the runway heading, or as a slight crosswind. A 20 knot crosswind 90 degrees to the runway is not a slight crosswind. Also, a gusting crosswind is much more of a challenge than a steady crosswind. The same goes for the airport - those with gaps between large buildings on the side the wind is coming from are trickier than runways that don't have the swirling winds.
Practicing in 8 - 10 knot crosswinds and learning how to plant your upwind wheel, and learning how to do whatever it takes to keep the runway center stripe passing thru the prop hub and out the tailwheel during wheel landings is helpful. Look far down the runway instead of outside the nose, and make sure you are tracking straight before allowing the tail to come down. Tracking on one wheel while you are gathering up control of the airplane requires the skill of a precision approach and a controlled decent rate so the wheel stays planted at touch down. You will want to add an increasing amount of aileron in to the wind as you are slowing down to keep weight on the upwind wheel. And of course, you will be dancing on the rudder pedals the whole time. During those early hours, I developed the habit of on final, taking my feet off of the pedals and rapidly moving them up and down to get them ready and to remind myself to be ready for fast feet.
The stronger/gustier the crosswind, the stronger my preference is for a wheel landing, IMHO.
Joe
51 C170A
Grand Prairie, TX
51 C170A
Grand Prairie, TX
Koop, the secret of any landing is directional control, and if the x-wind is gusty enough to overcome your effective rudder then you should find another runway more aligned with the wind. A test to determine if you have sufficient rudder is to line up on long final, and keep your airplane longitudinally aligned with the runway centerline. It's important to be at touch-down speed way out on final for this test to be valid. If the wind is such that you run out of rudder keeping the airplane aligned with the runway direction, then you've got too much cross-wind to use that runway.
When you land 3-point, the rudder becomes lowered to the point that it is blanked by the fuselage and to a degree, by the horizontal as well. (On top of which the fuselage itself, with decreasing forward speed, is becoming more of a factor with regard to weathervaning.) Additionally, when you pull that power back to idle, you're removing the prop-blast from the vertical stabilizer and rudder, so it's even less effective! (That's why in strong cross-winds many pilots prefer a wheel-landing. They can keep their speed and power up a bit to keep air over that rudder thereby increasing their directional control.)
Try this: Next time you have a crosswindy day, try flying the airplane the entire length of the runway just a few feet above the surface, without touching down, and then going-around at the departure end. Practice keeping that airplane just above your normal touch-down speed, and with rudder and aileron, keep that airplane aligned with the runway for the entire distance down the runway. Don't let that nose get off to one side at all. When you've got a good feel for your and your airplane's capabilities, then you're ready to let it touch down.
Once you've gotten to that point, don't forget to get the flaps up, and the tailwheel on the ground. I personally begin brake application immediately and regulate steady brake-application along with up-elevator in order to get the speed down to a taxi ASAP. Try http://www.taildraggers.com/ for an excellent discussion on landing tailwheel aircraft.
Don't give up!
When you land 3-point, the rudder becomes lowered to the point that it is blanked by the fuselage and to a degree, by the horizontal as well. (On top of which the fuselage itself, with decreasing forward speed, is becoming more of a factor with regard to weathervaning.) Additionally, when you pull that power back to idle, you're removing the prop-blast from the vertical stabilizer and rudder, so it's even less effective! (That's why in strong cross-winds many pilots prefer a wheel-landing. They can keep their speed and power up a bit to keep air over that rudder thereby increasing their directional control.)
Try this: Next time you have a crosswindy day, try flying the airplane the entire length of the runway just a few feet above the surface, without touching down, and then going-around at the departure end. Practice keeping that airplane just above your normal touch-down speed, and with rudder and aileron, keep that airplane aligned with the runway for the entire distance down the runway. Don't let that nose get off to one side at all. When you've got a good feel for your and your airplane's capabilities, then you're ready to let it touch down.
Once you've gotten to that point, don't forget to get the flaps up, and the tailwheel on the ground. I personally begin brake application immediately and regulate steady brake-application along with up-elevator in order to get the speed down to a taxi ASAP. Try http://www.taildraggers.com/ for an excellent discussion on landing tailwheel aircraft.
Don't give up!
Koop,
I easily relate to your frustration. I have approximately 150hrs total time with about 70 in my 170B and about 80hrs total taildragger time. My first ten hours of flying with the rear on the ground I wondered if there was any hope.
Today I'm very conservative with my skills, however I try to practice regularly with stiff and gusty winds. There seems to be no shortage of oppurtunities for this in Idaho. What I consider stiff and gusty may relate to calm for others however it falls within my comfort/un-comfort learning zone.
I've read all the pointers on landing both wheelie and three-point and take the information to heart. However I think the one lesson that has helped me more than any is what my instructor who gave my tailwheel endorsement called the "gump" check. Not only am I very concious about my landing checklist, airspeed, trim, etc. but I look straight down the "entire runway", physically lift my rear end up(sometimes accompanied by a big breath), and concentrate on nothing but making a straight successful landing. For some reason this seems to calm my mental nerves on the landing process and has been effective for nailing some pretty tough situations.
This is probably some of the weaker advice one can receive however I do know that it is something that is working for me. It has gotten me through a few "white knuckler" events.
First and formost continue on, learn, and have fun..... I know everytime after I have nearly left a stain on my newly covered seats I seem to come out with a bigger smile after rolling the plane in the hanger knowing that something was learned.
I easily relate to your frustration. I have approximately 150hrs total time with about 70 in my 170B and about 80hrs total taildragger time. My first ten hours of flying with the rear on the ground I wondered if there was any hope.
Today I'm very conservative with my skills, however I try to practice regularly with stiff and gusty winds. There seems to be no shortage of oppurtunities for this in Idaho. What I consider stiff and gusty may relate to calm for others however it falls within my comfort/un-comfort learning zone.
I've read all the pointers on landing both wheelie and three-point and take the information to heart. However I think the one lesson that has helped me more than any is what my instructor who gave my tailwheel endorsement called the "gump" check. Not only am I very concious about my landing checklist, airspeed, trim, etc. but I look straight down the "entire runway", physically lift my rear end up(sometimes accompanied by a big breath), and concentrate on nothing but making a straight successful landing. For some reason this seems to calm my mental nerves on the landing process and has been effective for nailing some pretty tough situations.
This is probably some of the weaker advice one can receive however I do know that it is something that is working for me. It has gotten me through a few "white knuckler" events.
First and formost continue on, learn, and have fun..... I know everytime after I have nearly left a stain on my newly covered seats I seem to come out with a bigger smile after rolling the plane in the hanger knowing that something was learned.
OLD THREAD
There is a thread on "CROSS WIND LANDINGS" two pages back. - - Go to the top of this page and click on "page 2" then go down to "Crosswind Landings" . You will enjoy the comments and may learn from those posts there.
PS. I took out the hyper - link because it made the line too long and did not wrap the text line.
[u][/u]
PS. I took out the hyper - link because it made the line too long and did not wrap the text line.
[u][/u]
Last edited by flyguy on Fri Aug 15, 2003 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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funseventy
- Posts: 230
- Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:46 pm
Get in then truck and come to Priest River! Let's take some time while your airplane is down and get this figured out. The key to not ground looping is too make sure the tail is always following you. I tell my students that they can bounce all day long and I won't say a word, it is the number one priority to keep the tail behind you. Make sure you are focusing on the right priorities, eventually it will all come together, but today lets focus on keeping it straight. It is hard to hurt the airplane by bouncing (it hurts your ego), but let the tail come around and it gets expensive quick. Let's stop the talk and start the learning. I have 5000 hours in at least 80 different types of tailwheel aircraft and would love the chance to help you keep your 170, and I'm sure you will.
I've got time this weekend,
Kelly
I've got time this weekend,
Kelly
koop, i bought the plane in 2001, and when doing the trip from buenos aires to my town in patagonia something happened in the middle that i wont forget in my life. Im not an expert in 170 or taildraggers, before buying the 70 i did 30 hours in nice pa11 a year before buying the plane. The rest 172 and 182 and some pa28 hs. I was landing at Santa Rosa (SAZR) with hot day and about 20 kt from the right, i didnt realized i was going to fast, and was going to do a wheel landing, i hit the runway, bounced once, and then the plane went directly to the right side. Then i remember that a old AGcat pilot told me in my town after one mirage pilot screwed a agcat 450 in a landing. He told me that if i know that im going out of the runway, to maintain the yoke back and if the outside part of runway has no holes or any kinda barrier, just let it go and no instant braking, to not try to maintain the plane by the force, beause youre most likely to brake the gear leg. Fortunately i did that, and the plane stopped a few meters later with no damage. Hope this would helps , again, im not an expert, just telling what happened to me. Saludos from argentina
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rudymantel
- Posts: 451
- Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:03 pm
I think the problem is that pilots are not being taught to use the rudder.
I guess the answer to these problems is lots of practice.
Funny, when I was starting to fly we all learned in tailwheel airplanes and no one thought anything about it. When in college, our CAP squadron had a Stearman, a PT-19 and an L-5 . We were all rank amateurs but no one even thought about groundloops. But now, after learning in nose gear planes it makes tailwheels seem difficult. (And I find that I have to pay more attention, but maybe that's just old age)
Maybe someone should build a tailwheel simulator that could be programmed to simulate different airplane types. I be it would make money !
FWIW (which ain't much...)
Rudy
I guess the answer to these problems is lots of practice.
Funny, when I was starting to fly we all learned in tailwheel airplanes and no one thought anything about it. When in college, our CAP squadron had a Stearman, a PT-19 and an L-5 . We were all rank amateurs but no one even thought about groundloops. But now, after learning in nose gear planes it makes tailwheels seem difficult. (And I find that I have to pay more attention, but maybe that's just old age)
Maybe someone should build a tailwheel simulator that could be programmed to simulate different airplane types. I be it would make money !
FWIW (which ain't much...)
Rudy
Hi Koop, Sorry to hear about your control transgressions. I know that alot of folks feel your pain. I'm glad you are OK. You are OK, aren't you?
Yes, wheel landings are better in a stiff crosswind. 3 pointers can be done up to a point, however. There's alot to consider. Hard to know your real problem without first hand observation but there is something I can pick from your described symptoms.
Consider that the 170's cockpit controls are similar to the 150's. That gives you warm fuzzies over transitioning to a stick wielding Cub with heel brakes (easier barefoot) and side mounted throttle not to mention a bobber for a fuel gage (that's how I started when I was eight). The way in which a 170 is more similar to a Cub, not a 150 is where you need to focus. In other words, why can you control a 150 at slow speed and not your 170. Notice I didn't mention the crosswind as a factor. Even though a 20 knot crosswind component is a bunch for a 170 to handle, it can be controlled through one.
While it is true that you need to bite off little chunks of the tailwheel apple so as not to choke on it, the basics need to be established correctly right off the bat for you to progress to more advanced tailwheel control antics (antics can become techniques if survived).
Remember during the first part of your pilot training when the instructor showed you and perhaps reminded you a few times how to place the controls when taxiing. The half hearted way these control placements are typically applied by nose pushers is the genisis of many tailwheel transition problems. You might have thought you had a handle on control placement until the day you met a tailwheel.
Most nose pushing pilots have never seen a ground loop
(I have had to ground loop a Beech 18 at slow speed on purpose because it's brakes failed pretty darn near the fence) nor a Luscombe tip over on it's nose (right in front of me while not moving on a taxiway) there are countless other taildragger control stories I can relate to you. Most are in the 'Huh?' file in the back of my brain.
You might have heard an expression from a taildragger pilot such as, "the excitement starts after you land." There's truth in that. A 150, once down on a landing and slowing, doesn't require near the precision of control as a 170. You can still learn the precise handling of a 150 so as to make tailwheel transitioning easier but most (yes, I said most) nose pushing CFI's aren't worth doodoo at teaching proper attention to control detail from chocks to takeoff to touchdown to the chocks. Don't get down on yourself for not being able to handle a 170 properly. It'll come. You cannot relax with a taildragger. You don't touchdown and start relaxing the controls. Think of it like standing on a beach ball, juggling, rolling down the sidewalk while singing "Yankee Doodle Dandy." YOU NEVER STOP FLYING A TAILDRAGGER. That is where it is less forgiving than a nose pushed plane.
I can't give you enough advice nor instruction on the forum. There are bouncing, spring gear dynamics, wheel mount alignment, porposing, crosswind techniques, aerodynamics etc. which I cannot know are factors unless I were there. I can offer to chat over the phone (call with beverage in hand and be ready to talk for a while) and if you are still serpentining down the runway after that, I'll come to Oregon and we'll go around the patch until you beg me to leave.
I am 46 and have been flying since I was 8. Dad dragged me into this club in 1971 when he bought 3956V (a '48 ragwing) I have 26,000 hours with a bunch in many tailwheel types (never stopped to count) including Pitts, Cubs, 170's, Beech 18's and others. I even tried my hand at crop dusting in a Pawnee 260 (I was a fearless teenager). I've got at least a couple thousand hours flying 170's. Drop me a line, let's talk, and we'll get you in touch with your 170. I am a CFI, among other things, and would be happy to help.
Bobby Bonham
Yes, wheel landings are better in a stiff crosswind. 3 pointers can be done up to a point, however. There's alot to consider. Hard to know your real problem without first hand observation but there is something I can pick from your described symptoms.
Consider that the 170's cockpit controls are similar to the 150's. That gives you warm fuzzies over transitioning to a stick wielding Cub with heel brakes (easier barefoot) and side mounted throttle not to mention a bobber for a fuel gage (that's how I started when I was eight). The way in which a 170 is more similar to a Cub, not a 150 is where you need to focus. In other words, why can you control a 150 at slow speed and not your 170. Notice I didn't mention the crosswind as a factor. Even though a 20 knot crosswind component is a bunch for a 170 to handle, it can be controlled through one.
While it is true that you need to bite off little chunks of the tailwheel apple so as not to choke on it, the basics need to be established correctly right off the bat for you to progress to more advanced tailwheel control antics (antics can become techniques if survived).
Remember during the first part of your pilot training when the instructor showed you and perhaps reminded you a few times how to place the controls when taxiing. The half hearted way these control placements are typically applied by nose pushers is the genisis of many tailwheel transition problems. You might have thought you had a handle on control placement until the day you met a tailwheel.
Most nose pushing pilots have never seen a ground loop
(I have had to ground loop a Beech 18 at slow speed on purpose because it's brakes failed pretty darn near the fence) nor a Luscombe tip over on it's nose (right in front of me while not moving on a taxiway) there are countless other taildragger control stories I can relate to you. Most are in the 'Huh?' file in the back of my brain.You might have heard an expression from a taildragger pilot such as, "the excitement starts after you land." There's truth in that. A 150, once down on a landing and slowing, doesn't require near the precision of control as a 170. You can still learn the precise handling of a 150 so as to make tailwheel transitioning easier but most (yes, I said most) nose pushing CFI's aren't worth doodoo at teaching proper attention to control detail from chocks to takeoff to touchdown to the chocks. Don't get down on yourself for not being able to handle a 170 properly. It'll come. You cannot relax with a taildragger. You don't touchdown and start relaxing the controls. Think of it like standing on a beach ball, juggling, rolling down the sidewalk while singing "Yankee Doodle Dandy." YOU NEVER STOP FLYING A TAILDRAGGER. That is where it is less forgiving than a nose pushed plane.
I can't give you enough advice nor instruction on the forum. There are bouncing, spring gear dynamics, wheel mount alignment, porposing, crosswind techniques, aerodynamics etc. which I cannot know are factors unless I were there. I can offer to chat over the phone (call with beverage in hand and be ready to talk for a while) and if you are still serpentining down the runway after that, I'll come to Oregon and we'll go around the patch until you beg me to leave.
I am 46 and have been flying since I was 8. Dad dragged me into this club in 1971 when he bought 3956V (a '48 ragwing) I have 26,000 hours with a bunch in many tailwheel types (never stopped to count) including Pitts, Cubs, 170's, Beech 18's and others. I even tried my hand at crop dusting in a Pawnee 260 (I was a fearless teenager). I've got at least a couple thousand hours flying 170's. Drop me a line, let's talk, and we'll get you in touch with your 170. I am a CFI, among other things, and would be happy to help.
Bobby Bonham
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russfarris
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Wed May 15, 2002 2:25 am
I'm one of the lucky few pilots of my generation (I learned to fly in 1972)
to have checked out in taildraggers when I was a student - the mighty 1946 Taylorcraft! Like imprinting on a baby duck who thinks the first thing it sees is mother, the techniques and training have never left me.
After 2,500 hours on tailwheels up to the DC-3, I have an observation to make. I'm convinced that the fastest way to start a groundloop is the urge to try to get the tailwheel on the ground ASAP after wheel landing. One of my best friends almost groundlooped the Piedmont Airlines DC-3 in exactly this manner.
If you try to force the tail down early, the weight on the mains is substantially reduced, and with it, the side cornering force on the tires.
If you get even a little crossed up directionaly, you have problems. In a crosswind I keep the tail high and the weight on the mains until the tail starts down on its own - then fly it down, holding full up at touchdown-
KEEPING IT ARROW STRAIGHT!!!
Unlike most people, I wheel land normally, so as a consequence my three points suck! I did one tonight and was so digusted I went around and did it again...
Just my two cents worth - Russ Farris
to have checked out in taildraggers when I was a student - the mighty 1946 Taylorcraft! Like imprinting on a baby duck who thinks the first thing it sees is mother, the techniques and training have never left me.
After 2,500 hours on tailwheels up to the DC-3, I have an observation to make. I'm convinced that the fastest way to start a groundloop is the urge to try to get the tailwheel on the ground ASAP after wheel landing. One of my best friends almost groundlooped the Piedmont Airlines DC-3 in exactly this manner.
If you try to force the tail down early, the weight on the mains is substantially reduced, and with it, the side cornering force on the tires.
If you get even a little crossed up directionaly, you have problems. In a crosswind I keep the tail high and the weight on the mains until the tail starts down on its own - then fly it down, holding full up at touchdown-
KEEPING IT ARROW STRAIGHT!!!
Unlike most people, I wheel land normally, so as a consequence my three points suck! I did one tonight and was so digusted I went around and did it again...
Just my two cents worth - Russ Farris
All glory is fleeting...
Koop, glad the NEVER STOP FLYING A TAILDRAGGER comment rang true to you. Sounds like you are in good hands with your old fart instructors (meant as a compliment) out there in Oregon. Apparently you had a case of the nose pusher pilot lazys after touchdown as was suspected. You are well on your way to being cured! Congrats.
Bobby
Bobby
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David Laseter
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:24 am
Koop, I'm certainly not qualified to give advice on landings. I've scraped wing tips and jumped over alder trees next to landing ruts myself in X-winds. What helped me the most was deciding that I was going to wheel land, everytime, until I was just as confident wheel landing as with 3 point. Of course, like Russ, wheel landings became my preference all the time. If you always make wheel landings then there isn't a big transition for X-winds, basically just adding appropriate wing down and rudder. Sometimes I'll feel an unexpected x-wind at touch down and can easily adjust for it. In a full stall I'd be vulnerable (thank goodness for fiberglass droop tips 
) . My wife really appreciated the change to smooth wheel landings as you'rs will. There is a new set of tire paths in the grass, along side runway 7 & 25, in Russellville, AR. We've only been in the Lower 48, 9 months ?, but I still prefer grass especially in X-winds.
Dave
) . My wife really appreciated the change to smooth wheel landings as you'rs will. There is a new set of tire paths in the grass, along side runway 7 & 25, in Russellville, AR. We've only been in the Lower 48, 9 months ?, but I still prefer grass especially in X-winds.Dave
David:
I like the idea of always doing a wheels landing,but its'awfully tempting not to go for the three point landing with no wind. I'm also curious about your landing on the green between the runway, I might keep that in mind in the next cross wind. Thanks for the information. Most of my family lives near Sprindale, Ar. I might look you up the next time I'm down that way. Koop Bandon by the sea
I like the idea of always doing a wheels landing,but its'awfully tempting not to go for the three point landing with no wind. I'm also curious about your landing on the green between the runway, I might keep that in mind in the next cross wind. Thanks for the information. Most of my family lives near Sprindale, Ar. I might look you up the next time I'm down that way. Koop Bandon by the sea
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David Laseter
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:24 am
Please do that! Springdale is not far at all. I was flying around Mon morning (started flying again) looking at Elk in the Ozark Mountains and ended up landing at Harrison (Missouri border) to ask where I was, find some AIRCONDITION, and check for bullet holes. My Garmin 150 is showing poor sattelite coverage most of the time for some reason. I'm amazed at how fast you can fly right out of the state down there. Landed at Ozark also - Joe. Anyway, once you get those wheel landings down (same slow and easy set up as 3 point, just let the plane settle on the mains instead of pulling yoke back to rib cage) you'll have to remind yourself to practice the 3 point every once in awhile. I do prefer softer and forgiving grass landings. Also, when landing on asphalt and the wheels chirp, it's hard to finish the roll out when your looking around to see if anyone heard you. 
Hi Koop. Alot of good advice and ideas here. I found that when I see someone bounce (could be me...) it is usually cause they (I) flare onto the runway instead of above it and let the ground come to the mains. By flaring above, you can, by looking down the center line, make sure you have directional control and are ready to land. For wheel landings (on my "B"), I can't keep the tail up with 40º of flaps, so, besides more speed (with or without X-wind) and trimmed forward, no more than 30º of flaps. My instructor had showed me to taxi and to take-off, to lift the tail high and roll that way faster than the rotaion speed, to teach me the "view" out the windscreen (would be the same as landing that way), then controlled "S" turns, etc. It made wheel landings "feel" better. If you have enough runway (preferably grass) you can also, after picking up the tail (20º flaps works good), pick up one main and taxi on one wheel to see and feel the configuration in strong X-wind. I'm not sure if I paint a clear picture, but transition to and from flight are at the lower end of speed and control effectiveness, so, alot of what you practice without leaving the ground so far as looking down the runway, feeling the plane through the throttle, aileron, rudder, elevator, trim and brake inputs to keep it straight or turned the way you want (obstacles do show up) will increase your comfort and awareness level. Hope this helps some. JD