So your now a happily married-playboy jet-jockey and fun-loving ..... Texan.gahorn wrote:and in those days I imagined I was a bachelor-playboy jet-jockey and a fun-loving idiot. I got lucky and never hurt the plane.
These days I'm happily married.
Re: Tail Up Taxi...
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
- Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10320
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Re: Tail Up Taxi...
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Re: Tail Up Taxi...
How many of you aces use a tail high roll out on a short field landing in order to keep braking weight on the mains? That used to be the style on the Dizzy Three.
Real easy to do on the C-170 if you have double puck Clevelands too.
When I was a batchelor playboy, they did'nt have jets.
Real easy to do on the C-170 if you have double puck Clevelands too.
When I was a batchelor playboy, they did'nt have jets.
BL
Re: Tail Up Taxi...
That's how I land all the time. Put it on the mains and hit the brakes. Gives me great control in a cross wind and I can stop shorter that way than three pointing it.blueldr wrote:How many of you aces use a tail high roll out on a short field landing in order to keep braking weight on the mains? That used to be the style on the Dizzy Three.
Real easy to do on the C-170 if you have double puck Clevelands too.
When I was a batchelor playboy, they did'nt have jets.
Re: Tail Up Taxi...
Dizzy 3 and a 170 are different animals. Definitely do not recommend wheel landing and braking on a short field in the 170 like the operation you are describing for the DC-3.
52' C-170B N2713D Ser #25255
Doug
Doug
- Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10320
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Re: Tail Up Taxi...
Well here goes. When I want to land short I make a slow approach landing three point and stand on the brakes. I do it the same in a cross wind.
Now before everyone gets uppity touting your favorite technique as the best way, I'm currently landing my 170 on Goodyear cross wind gear with required Goodyear brakes. I'm fairly confident not many of you here have spent much time doing that. When I had straight gear, and showing off, I would occasionally wheel land and ride the brakes hard. I could still three point shorter. But do this with the Goodyear brakes which do not exude confidence in ones ability to apply equal and constant breaking, and things get interesting real fast as the gear breaks out an you find yourself going somewhere sideways.
When I find myself traveling down the runway sideways I like to be on all three wheels.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Re: Tail Up Taxi...
To open a can of worms..canav8 wrote:Dizzy 3 and a 170 are different animals. Definitely do not recommend wheel landing and braking on a short field in the 170 like the operation you are describing for the DC-3.
Beg to differ.
I've been landing this way since I bought the 170 a few years ago and there is nothing wrong with it.
I'm over the fence somewhere around 60mph, and touch down in the neighborhood of 50ish (who looks at the ASI at that point?) I put it on the mains, yoke forward and get on the brakes. I make first turn off almost every time and I'm not even trying to make them a short as possible. Crosswind or not (and W00 has a direct crosswind almost year round)
I'm not going to say it's the only way or the best way or that everyone should land the way I land but I will say it's wrong to state you shouldn't wheel land and brake in a 170. It works just fine.
Re: Tail Up Taxi...
bluEldr.... that's (Dizzy-3 style) how I frequently land...simply because it's fun.
But NOT because I want to land short-field....because that's not the way to land shortest. Wheel landings, by definition aren't slow enough to land shortest.
SHORT field landings are SLOW approach, 3-point, full flap, full-stall! (Just like Bruce's, except without the applause.)
But NOT because I want to land short-field....because that's not the way to land shortest. Wheel landings, by definition aren't slow enough to land shortest.
SHORT field landings are SLOW approach, 3-point, full flap, full-stall! (Just like Bruce's, except without the applause.)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Re: Tail Up Taxi...
The guys at the Valdez STOL competition seem to disagree.gahorn wrote: SHORT field landings are SLOW approach, 3-point, full flap, full-stall! (Just like Bruce's, except without the applause.)
Re: Tail Up Taxi...
They obviously didn't see Bruces Petit Jean performance, done I mightbagarre wrote:The guys at the Valdez STOL competition seem to disagree.gahorn wrote: SHORT field landings are SLOW approach, 3-point, full flap, full-stall! (Just like Bruce's, except without the applause.)
add, with an average airplane, without special treatment.
No STOL competitive tricks. No super weight removal efforts.
No tube and fabric, big engine, or high dollar mods.
Didn't even brake hard.
Just a standard airworthiness certificate, and excellent piloting
skills.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Re: Tail Up Taxi...
[quote] I'd say you're both right! 3 pt touchdown, and then hard on the brakes with the tail up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... w1Y#t=68s/ [quote]
They are doing three point touch downs, not wheel landings, and then standing on the brakes so hard that the tail comes up and, with luck, doesn't nose over, which is considered bad technique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... w1Y#t=68s/ [quote]
They are doing three point touch downs, not wheel landings, and then standing on the brakes so hard that the tail comes up and, with luck, doesn't nose over, which is considered bad technique.
Pete Brown
Anchorage, Alaska
N4563C 1953 170B
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2366/2527 ... 4e43_b.jpg
Anchorage, Alaska
N4563C 1953 170B
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2366/2527 ... 4e43_b.jpg
Re: Tail Up Taxi...
I don't trust Bruce anymore, he's obviously photoshopped the rotor mast, tail rotor out and subsituted a 170 fuselage into that landing vid.
Jim McIntosh..
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
- Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10320
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Re: Tail Up Taxi...
Since it's been mentioned here it is
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsAk2zUNKOs[/youtube]
The runway does have a 0.8% uphill grad but wind was dead calm. This was just a slow approach. I bet I was under 50 when I touched. Loved those VGs. Miss that plane.
(OK I'll admit, I did enhance the applause)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsAk2zUNKOs[/youtube]
The runway does have a 0.8% uphill grad but wind was dead calm. This was just a slow approach. I bet I was under 50 when I touched. Loved those VGs. Miss that plane.
(OK I'll admit, I did enhance the applause)
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Re: Tail Up Taxi...
I remember that landing very well Bruce! There needs to be a repeat performance at Petit Jean one of these days in the not too distant future And just think how much better you could do it now with a GREEN airplane However, I don't know if you could get your GREEN airplane as SLOW as a RED one
OLE POKEY
170C
Director:
2012-2018
170C
Director:
2012-2018
Re: Tail Up Taxi...
Thats the REASON...he'll likely do better! He will have to carry extra power tho'170C wrote:I remember that landing very well Bruce! There needs to be a repeat performance at Petit Jean one of these days in the not too distant future And just think how much better you could do it now with a GREEN airplane ...
to make the comparison duplicative.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Re: Tail Up Taxi...
OK, Bruce.....mid year at Petit Jean!gahorn wrote:Thats the REASON...he'll likely do better! He will have to carry extra power tho'170C wrote:I remember that landing very well Bruce! There needs to be a repeat performance at Petit Jean one of these days in the not too distant future And just think how much better you could do it now with a GREEN airplane ...
to make the comparison duplicative.
Anyone who can't make it can join via internet conference.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.