iPad Mini

[170C]

What is the opinion of this new device? Is it identical to the regular iPad, just a smaller screen? If someone is considering replacing an existing GPS (VFR) will the iPad Mini provide the same data/features as say an iPilot 720 or one of the newer Garmin portable GPS's . If one went with the iPad Mini which one is going to meet most needs for a vfr pilot (16 GB/32 GB/64 GB)? Just trying to see what might be the most bang for the buck option.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Well Frank I'll tell you first hand after I get mine in two weeks.

To answer some of your questions. It is identical in operating system to the current IPad. That means it will run the same software. It does not have the same screen resolution as the current IPad3 but it is the same as the IPad2. It does not have the same chip as the IPad3 but that of the IPad2. It does have the same Facetime and Isight cameras as the IPad3.

As for memory size. You can probably get buy with the 16gb. BUT it is not upgradeable. So I choose the 32gb size. I made this decision based on the son-in-law's experience with both his IPhone and his IPad and the fact he has no where near 32gb and he is a Iphone/IPad junkie.

But there is more to consider. Like all the other IPads before the mini the WIFI version does not have a built in GPS. This does not mean it can not be used in an airplane or your car, it means you will have to buy a bluetooth GPS and have it working and communicating to the IPad.

Like all the IPads before the mini if you buy a model with 3G or cellular as they are now calling it, it does come with a built in GPS. You DO NOT have to activate the cell service in order to use the GPS. Also like the other IPads before the built in GPS in not WAAS enabled like the bluetooth GPS your likely to buy for a WIFI only unit. What this means in the IPad using the built in GPS will only be able to navigate you as close as a hundred meters, not with-in 10 meters like the WAAS bluetooth units. Comforting to know none of my friends using the built in non WAAS GPS have gotten lost. Well almost, there was a friend who didn't turn on his IPad.

I already own a bluetooth WAAS enables GPS. Still I wanted the convenience of having the built in GPS in case I didn't feel like fooling with the Bluethooth unit. And I also wanted the cell option. Like all otherthings IPad the cell and internal GPS can not be added later.

I bought a IPad Mini 32g+cellular (ATT - my choice because their pricing is better for me) in fast Black. (did you know Black is nearly as fast as GREEN)

Now back to the software. Anything for the IPad should work. However the screens may not be optimized for the new mini size. Look for all new versions of the software optimized for the mini. I think it will be a big success for Apple specially with the aviation crowd. In my opinion the IPad was just to big for the cockpit.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Some more thoughts on "bang for the buck". I think you get more bang for your buck when you can use a single piece of equipment for more things. This is the case with the IPad of any size. The iFly 720 is software run on a tablet platform of some type. Looking at their website I could not determine if it could be used for anything else. The Garmin unit of course is just a navigation device. You can't surf the web with it.

Don't get me wrong. One of the things I've noticed is it is not always the best trying to read a rasterized map on an IPad or even my computer and Garmin takes great pains to recreate a pretty darn good map that is readable no matter what scale you have it at. I'll miss the Garmin, can't wait for my IPad Mini.

[bagarre]

I have an iPad that I use for aviation quite a bit.
My Dad bought an iFly 700 last year.

Both of us (my dad and I) have since moved to Garmin Aeras forin flight navigation.
My Dad has sold the ifly and plans to get an iPad for weather and preflight.

IMO, the iPad is a GREAT flight briefing / weather tool but lacks utility in flight due to its size and the digitized sectional charts. The smaller form factor of the iPad 3 might make it better in flight but I doubt it will rival/replace the Garmin Aera for me. If Garmin ever took the custom maps from their Aera and put them on the iPad: ForFlight would go bankrupt.

Just another opinion.

[170C]

Bruce & David, thanks for your input on this subject. As I have mentioned previously, I have an old Magellan 5000 that still works as well as the day it was installed (1994) and a Lowrance 2000c that likewise works as well as it did when purchased. Both have the same issue---neither mfg. supports the product and neither one can be updated. I do keep up-to-date sectionals with me most of the time, but realize at some point I am going to have to replace the Lowrance as it is my primary navigational unit. Makes flying in congested airspace such as DFW much easier and safer. I just don't want to spend the bucks for an iPad Mini and find out it doesn't provide the same navigational presentations, etc. as the Garmin models mentioned above or those provided by iPilot, etc. I will be anxiously awaiting how you find the unit when you have it and have gotten some experience with it Bruce. Anyone else who may have one of the mini's or talk to those who do so, post the data so it can be shared by all members.

thanks,

Frank

[c170b53]

Frank I still have and still love my outdated 2000. I now have the IPAD 3 cell for reasons Bruce mentioned. I use the foreflight programs and have just downloaded the Bendix xwing something but havent had a chance to use it. I got a 64 GB model, and after loading all the foreflight stuff, it barely made a dent in it. I find the IPA3 a bit too large, the mini may mount in a place that wouldn't get in the way but....I find the whole thing to be a major waste of time and expense. The problem with these devices is the display and the associated glare. If your using it flying away from the sun you're almost in luck, into the sun forget about it. I dislike the foreflight program because the program selection buttons are on the bottom of the screen in the same area that you would grab or hold it from and often when you need something the most, is the time it goes off into the IPAD. I have a ram mount but there's no place to put it where you could see the display and not get in the way of things. I look at the 696 with envy but what I really want is a full glass 1000 panel and a 135KT cruise....and I already know when I'll be obtaining those outcomes.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

I think what David and his dad found, I already figured out. There is just no comparison looking at Garmins map verses the digitized sectional. That is why the Garmin 560 is $1500. And I mention the 560 because of the XM weather. Of course maybe the best bet will be a IPad Mini 32g+cell at $639 and a Gamin 500 @ $699.

To be honest 99.999% of my personal flying today I don't even turn on my GPS. I think my IPad Mini will be fine for what I need even with the sun glare issues. We will see.

[cmsusllc]

Keep up the conversation guys as some of us are watching with interest. I too have a Lorance 2000 that works just fine but our class B airspace at Seattle has changed since their last update so it is becomming outdated. Also my business is really requiring internet access more often than once a day so I would have several uses for the I-pad. I will be very interested in how the mini works all around.
Scott

[DavidBlom]

I have had an iPad 2 for a little over a year now and I also have a Lowrance 2000C with a database from somewhere around 2008. As others have said, the mountains and rivers stay pretty much in the same places, but the thing is not much help these days when navigating the fairly complex airspace in the Lower Mainland of British Columbia.

Last spring I downloaded AirNav Pro ($50) on the iPad  and used it for a few cross-country flights in place of the 2000C. I found the open source (free) maps of the region to be poor compared to what I was used to on the Lowrance, so I ponied up another $30 for topo maps of all of Canada. I have to say, with the new maps the iPad app using the built-in gps is superior to the Lowrance, though I do miss the colour coded terrain warnings. The only other complaint I have is that the iPad 2 is too big - I have a ram mount on the pax side ahead of the ashtray and even way over there it blocks more of the view out the window than I would like.

The iPad mini looks like it may be the perfect size for this application - if I were going to buy an iPad today I would give the mini a serious look. Given that my work requires that I have an iPad anyway, the extra cost to fit it out as an aviation gps is under $100 - better value than the Lowrance I paid $800 for that was orphaned a year later.

Dave Blom
170A C-FNIE

[KS170A]

And I mention the 560 because of the XM weather.

I met with the Foreflight team at the NBAA convention in Orlando last week and came away with new insight for their product and iPads. For those who wish to NOT buy the 3G/4G version (cellular) of the iPad (or iPad mini), there is a fairly new product out now called the Stratus (available from Sporty's). This product really stood out to me because of the (1) WAAS GPS that (2) connects to multiple iPods/iPhones/iPads via more dependable wi-fi instead of bluetooth, and (3) has FREE ADS-B based weather (puts more green in your wallet for gas, so Bruce could potentially go faster )! Granted, not every single product that XM provides is currently available via the free ADS-B uplink, but the most significant products to me are composite (as opposed to base reflectivity) radar and TFRs. The box can be wired in to ship power or powered by its own battery.

The only drawback I can see right now is that the signal is ground-based, meaning coverage might be spotty in a few areas. The representative at the Foreflight booth assured me that the whole lower 48 would be covered next year (perhaps Alaska is already covered?).

Difference in price of wi-fi only vs wi-fi+cellular iPad plus the cost savings of not having XM WX just about pays for the Stratus box! That's the kind of green this red-striped 170 owner likes!

[KS170A]

Just found this blog post on Foreflight's site regarding the iPad mini. Worth reading if you're drafting up your Santa wish-list!

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Josh, ADS-B info is not XM weather though XM could be the Governments contractor providing the info that is uplinked, I don't know. ADS-B is ground based and last I checked does not cover everywhere yet though it is projected to do so down the line in the US.

Yes the Stratus is a piece of the puzzle one needs to consider. I think I like the fact it is WIFI rather than bluetooth because of the multi connectivity one might be able to get. What else one might want to connect to the Stratus who knows.

One on the problems going the IPad route is you are your own engineer putting your system together. You buy the platform I.E. IPad2, IPad3, IPad Mini or even a IPhone. Then you buy the software. You find a mount. You decide on other hardware such as a bluetooth WAAS GPS or Stratus. It can be overwhelming and one never knows when to jump in because there is always new stuff coming on line.

Buying a Garmin is pretty easy. Pony up as much money as you can find or justify to a one task product and buy it.

If you think you want to go the IPad route the first thing you need to decide is WIFI or cellular. The difference in cost no matter what IPad you buy is $130. For the $130 you get a built in GPS though not WAAS and you will get the opportunity to use the cellular if you choose. Remember the cellular model also uses WIFI when in a hotspot. Like my friends I might find a WAAS GPS to be unnecessary and there is $100 towards the additional $130 price.

So whether you add a Stratus, or a bluetooth GPS or anything else that comes down the line, it seems to me to be a no brainer to get a IPad with cellular. And that is the next decision one has to make after deciding to go the IPad route.

[bagarre]

Bringing up weather is an interesting topic with even more opinions.

For me: I am a day time VFR pilot that thinks 2,000 foot ceilings and 5 mile visibility is a bad day to be in the air. So, I can tell if I want to go flying by watching the weather channel and looking outside if I wanted. ForeFlight gives me GREAT flight planning and briefing capabilities on the ground before my 'long' 3 hour' flights or day trips. From Airmets to TFRs to Prog Charts; everything is in one place. A very nice companion to my morning cup of coffee. Once I'm in the air tho, I tell the weather by looking out the window.

IF I was the type of pilot that few in the type of weather that required me to have in flight weather updates, I would not take the iPad seriously at all. The device itself was not designed nor built to be life critical. People use it for that but it has no redundant or fail safe features and neither does ForeFlight nor any other software app.

A great example of where ForeFlight FAILS MISERABLY: Bring up any weather overlay on the screen. You have no indication in the software if the data loaded, is loading or failed to load. Worse yet, they present data as 'no news is good news'. If the airport you are flying to is Gusting winds to 90mph and ripped off the windmeter, ForeFlight will show that airport as WINDS CALM instead of NO DATA (or Sky Clear instead of NO DATA when it's socked in at 200ft). I've brought this to their attention several times. Their answer is to pull up the full METAR and see for yourself...so much for convenient weather overlays.

I like the iPad and really like ForeFlight but I wouldn't use it as my sole source of decision making information and I'd never get myself into a position where I had to rely on it with my life.

Just another opinion.

[bigrenna]

delete

[GAHorn]

bluElder said "It was easier to de-cipher the teletyped weather than to remove her garters...and faster, too!"

REAL weather reporting

(and it was impolite to talk about "mini-pads" in mixed company)