Cracked lifter bodies on my C-145

[blueldr]

Our Canadian members may have a different outlook on what we refer to as a field overhaul, that is, an overhaul not necessarily done in a licensed engine shop but by, or under the supervision of, a certificated powerplant mechanic.
I believe the Canadian authorities require certified aircraft engines must be overhauled it an authorized facilty.

[c170b53]

Blueldr I wasn't thinking about the border when I made my comments, those comments are just my own thoughts. An A&P or an AME field overhaul would likely be much the same. For any commercial application in Canada an overhaul as you suggest must be done in an approved shop. With regard to import or export C of A's again for an approved shop engine the process is less painful but if the engine has had a field overhaul it would have to come with least an inch thick pile of 8130's and the process would certainly be under scrutiny. Thus and as suggested by a previous poster a shop overhaul is an advantage on certain airplanes and not always for other models.
Blueldr, everyone has an opinion here (and your is wrong)... just kidding) and as for myself my first thought was I'll just keep my keyboard shut as there's many unknowns with a post such as this one (what a great first post by the way). Aside from a debate on what is an overhaul and what is a repair, in my mind it comes down to the capabilities of the person(s) doing the work and in what kind of environment. Myself I think engines are getting older, parts are becoming harder to find, shops are closing down, old knowledge is not always being passed on, there's fewer new part suppliers and I could go on and on and its not good. In other words it was much easier and not as expensive to do an engine 20 years ago. What I also see (and this may be one of many flaws in my perception) is when someone has gained a fair amount of "time in" on a machine they sometimes underestimate their acquired ability and think it would be easy for someone else to have the same success. I'm often just jaw sagging blown away by the smarts of some of the members in our club and I'm too often reminded that I know so little in comparison but really what it tells me we are all different. Some can do the work, some can talk the work and some are better off getting someone else to do it whether that be due to economical reasons or due to practical reasons.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Thad,

The numbers you got seem in line. About $5k for the inspections and refurb work if necessary. Then there are parts for a few thousand more. Then what about the cylinders? Six new cylinders at $900 each is another $5400. You will likely have just under $15k in the complete overhaul.

[bagarre]

Bruce,
I talked to Western Skyways about rebuilding my engine and was told it would be aproxemetly $22000.00 to do. The gentleman that I talked to seemed very knowledgable and friendly but the airplane would have to go into hibernation for two years for me to come up with that amount of cash.

You still have the option of repairing the engine for now. The overhaul wasnt many hours ago but was a lot of years ago. The bottom end is probably still all in servicable limits if rust hasn't gotten to it yet.

(Opinions being just Opinions) I'd look into how much it would cost in parts to repair the motor for now and then save up the money to do a full overhaul at a later date.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

David brings up a good point. You could split the case and evaluate what you have and assuming all is servicable, just replace the cracked lifters and reassemble. Your time and the (I assume) paid mechanic an a few gaskets.

Your back in the air, you know what you have, which is more than most of us to be honest, and you continue to get more life out of the engine of the engine you've already paid for.

To be perfectly honest this is the route I'd take.

Be aware of course this would just be a repair and not an overhaul.

[blueldr]

I'm strongly inclined to agree with Bruce in that I would go for a repair rather than a full overhaul considering the time presently on the engine. I have seen many O-300 engine bottom ends go for well over 2000 hours and still remain within limits.
I think I'd replace the lifters, which sound to be the early style parts, with new ones. Scratch up the cylinder walls, give it a valve job and new rings and go from there. Of course, that's assuming that everything else looks OK too.

[c170b53]

Agreed gentlemen, this is exactly the advice I give most if an engine has relatively low time; repair and continue time. Only problem with this engine and that advice is the length of time it sat since its last operation hence the route will likely be determined on tear down. My present engine (0320) when I acquired it (150 smoh) had suffered a prop strike. It was torn apart, repaired, and no major parts replaced other than new mags; cost 5K which I think was a reasonable deal for me.

[c170b53]

Well it has been running since it your restoration, what was required to get it running? I've acquired Blueldr's favorite engine an io-360kb which sat for 8 years. I've begun the tear down and the bottom end looks good but the top end not so good.

[lowNslow]

Just as a cautionary note, the reason the lifters are broken in the first place is probably that when installing a cylinder someone did not make sure the little cups that hold the engine side of the push rod were not in the correct position. When removing the push rods the cups will sometimes flip sideways in the hole and if not corrected will break the lifter when the prop is turned.

[Poncho73]

Our Canadian members may have a different outlook on what we refer to as a field overhaul, that is, an overhaul not necessarily done in a licensed engine shop but by, or under the supervision of, a certificated powerplant mechanic.
I believe the Canadian authorities require certified aircraft engines must be overhauled it an authorized facilty.

An AME can overhaul a non-counter weighted crankshaft engine in Canada (private owned). Where the authorities get you is you must have proof the components accessories and so on, are properly machined, checked and certified. This task in most cases, requires specialized equipment and shops. In my case I overhauled my C-145 back in 2000 (I was not the owner then, only the Engineer) and I had a good friend who worked at an overhaul facility - so proving I had done things to spec was not an issue . The total cost was about half.

[blueldr]

Poncho73,
Thanks for the enlightenment.

[GAHorn]

A"repair" can be done by an AP/AME.
An"overhaul"has additional requirements than a"repair".

[twlareau]

Update,
Lar's (my A&P friend)and I disassembled the engine yesterday in the 90 Deg. heat. Bring your sun screen to the convention.
We were fortunate not to find any corrosion or problems that we could see with a visual inspection. We have decided that we will send the crank, rods, lifters, and cam to Aircraft Specialties service for inspection. The crank looks great and the bearings are standard size but I would not feel good about the repair unless we had it checked. The case, oil pan, and accessory case looked good as well. We saw no corrosion in the oil pan. We will send all of these parts to Crank Case Services in Tulsa for an inspection as well.

The only part I did not like was the starter pinion gear. Thanks to the club forum I have located a new one.

We have decided to make this a repair instead of an overhaul as the cylinders were redone 130 hours ago and everything else is in good working order.

I also checked the crank gear to cam gear lash. It was .008"

Will keep the updates coming!

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Thad,

Since you have decided to send out all the stuff except the case why not have the case inspected, inspect the cylinders and call it a Major. You are so close.

This is always the question.

I personally would not send out anything that looked/measured good. I'd reassemble with the new lifters as necessary and the starter gear you don't like and call it a repair and have the satisfaction of the visual inspection knowing that is more than most of us have.

In my mind once I send out the crank and the rest you mentioned, I'd go for the overhaul. That is where I'd draw the line.

[ginbug92b]

It's too bad you didn't mic all the crank journals. They could all be within standard limits. I will just about guarantee you that the shop will tell you that they HAD to grind the crank .010 under. They are looking to generate more work and money. Also the undersize bearings are more expensive than standard size.