Federal Skii Prices

[mnlanese]

Can anyone who has experience with the subject recommend a fair price for a set of Federal A2500A Skiis. They look to be in good condition, includes all rigging and all three skiis. Also experience and pitfalls of installing on the 170.

Thanks,

[Kurt Aichele]

We just put our '48 on skis this past winter after an unsuccessful attempt the previous winter. Had the bare aluminum bottoms and it appeared to be too much drag. We have an 0300D. We found that the UHMW bottoms are a "must have". We used the 3/16" thick material. After installing the UHMW, it made all the difference in the world. Turning while taxiing takes up a lot of space. Much heavier tail than the Cubs, Aeroncas, etc. While turning, try pushing forward on the yoke to lighten up the tail. Also, left turns come around easier than right turns do. Use bursts of power rather than continuous power to get it to turn. We didn't use the tail ski yet, so not sure if it would help with the turns. Helps to have a partner with to push the tail around in windy conditions or tight spaces. Not much snow this year in Northern Ill. Make sure the rubber bungees are in good condition. A lot of good info can be found at www.skiplane.org and www.backcountrypilot.org Putting them on takes us about 45 minutes. It's a little bit of a hassle, but well worth it. Loads of fun. Not sure what a good price would be for these, since we got a great deal on ours from a friend.

[flat country pilot]

Can anyone who has experience with the subject recommend a fair price for a set of Federal A2500A Skiis.

I have experience with AL skis, but only more than someone without any. No experience with Federals.

A couple years ago I bought Aero skis from Troy in Brooten MN, brand new with all rigging and STC for less than $2300. They came with poly bottoms and the keel installed. The last time I checked, Troy still doesn't have a website, which is a good thing. He has an old fashioned business built and run on service.

In my opinion, if the federals your looking at need anything, bottoms or rigging, there worth $1200. If you by used and approach $2000 after getting them ready to ski, your better off with new.

Bill

[Blue4]

I was in the market for and searched for skis for 2 Alaskan seasons. I wanted to purchase Federal 2500s, but never was able to find a used pair locally. I think I read on skiplane.org that used skis average about $1 per pound of rating. The Federals I did see down in America (the lesser 48) were listed and/or went for $2000 - 3000 depending on condition. For skis requiring work, $2000 may even be on the high end. For flight-worthy skis with 3/16" UHMW already in place, including extras like rigging, $3000 might be about right. Bottom line for your question: $2-3k is ballpark.

But anything is only worth what you are willing to pay for it!

For comparison, I saw several sets for Landes/Airglas 2500s for sale, the average price was $2 - 2.5k on these as well.

I ended up purchasing a set of Aero 3000s from the folks at Aero Ski in Brooten, MN. Through my dealer, they were roughly $3k including shipping and UHMW plastic installed at the factory. Based on reports from ski flyers in the local area, I knew that I wanted a metal ski versus fiberglass. The Federals and Aeros are comparable, with the Aero being a superior ski in my opinion. With the added fact that brand-new they are about the same price as used gear ... well, that sealed the deal. Since you are in Minnesota (presuming from your user name, MNlanese) you might even consider making a field trip to their factory. The folks there are very knowledgeable and very friendly. They've been making skis for at least 40 years (based on the install drawing dates), probably longer.

All this being said, I'm in the process of rigging my airplane for skis. Its more of a challenge than I anticipated -- or hoped. Its not hard, but I should have done it this summer. This tale of woe is for another thread, or at least another day. Even though I just bought the skis, it doesn't look like I'll be flying them at all this season.
-Scott

[minton]

As a Oh by the way. The Feds have all but said they are not doing any "sign off's" on field approvals in AK in the near future. This could really get in the way of ski installations as the old style rigging that is now (not approved) on spring style gear legs. The same as depicked in 43.13 is the only rigging that (was) approved but not now. This is the same as Landis rigging thus not approved. The new mounting brackets/locations were only field approved not STC'd even though they are the ones everybody now installs so go figure that one out!

Between a rock and a hard place? YEP!

I'm in hopes that someone has an STC out there to cure the problem.

I would recommend a call to F. Atlee Dodge as they are the ones who sell the new rigging kits 907-344-1755. They might also have some insights into the issue of approvals.

This information is dated in some areas and subject to newer inputs so give a call to your PMI before moving forward.

[minton]

Can anyone who has experience with the subject recommend a fair price for a set of Federal A2500A Skiis. They look to be in good condition, includes all rigging and all three skiis. Also experience and pitfalls of installing on the 170.

Thanks,

As I remember the original Federals had a convex bottom. This would need to be changed out to a flat bottom prior to plastic installation.

The other warning I have is checking the tunnels for cracks. (Very common)

[mnlanese]

Thanks for all the input Guys. The skiis look to be in good shape from all the pictures, they have all the rigging included, need a fresh coat of paint and have an all metal bottom surface. Not a big deal to paint them. As far as installing a plastic bottom, that might be more of a project. I would certainly need to do some more research on all that. Its a shame there is no STC out there for these, Field approvals are only going to get harder and harder to get as the old time FAA maintenance guys are replaced by folks without GA experience. Before long they will be to afraid to approve anything. In any event, for 2000 I want to snatch them up while they are available, even if they sit for a bit at least I will have them. I think looking into the Aero option is a good alternative as well even though I don't live in MN (That's my initials not my state of residence). Lots of research ahead.....

[Green Bean]

"As I remember the original Federals had a convex bottom. This would need to be changed out to a flat bottom prior to plastic installation."

You can't make the Federals flat. The UHMW goes over the bottom as is, the metal strip on the bottom comes off and changed to a UHMW strip as a hold down for the center on the ski. 10% extra UHMW, about 2 inches, is added all the way around the ski for extra surface area. Atlee Dodge sells the brackets for the forward and the aft attach points, and signed off as a minor alteration.

As for metal bottoms.. ??? Good Luck.

[ak2711c]

If you want to compare prices and specs with new Aero skis you can look on www.aeroski.net There is a full price list on there as well as brochures and ski specs. Good luck.
Shawn

[mnlanese]

Thanks for the website Shawn. Its hard to find information out there on the aero ski and this website has all that you need. I think with prices the way they are it might be better just to go with a new ski from them and get all you need without having to deal with refurbing old federals with plastic or trying to find an stc... Thanks for all the good info from all....

[blueldr]

When I was in the USAF stationed at Ladd AFB in Fairbanks, '47 to '51, I had a Stinson L-5G that I kept at Weeks Field, the Fairbanks Municipal Airport. When winter was coming I started looking for a set of skis. I found an ad in TAP for a set of Federal Alcan 3500 skis in Wisconsin for $300. The L-5 grossed about 2200 so I thought the 3500 Alcans would be just dandy. The Alcans were a new style at that time and they had a considerly greater footprint than the regular Federals, so I thought they would just be the cats pajamas for my L-5G in view of the need for a large footprint in the snow conditions of the interior. I sent the $300 to the Doctor in Wisconsin that was selling them and had them shipped to Great Falls AFB, MT, where one of our regular freight flights could bring them up to Ladd.
When I received them, they turned out to be a set of regular 3500s. I was some pi--ed off, and proceded to send that Doctor an indignant letter. He answered that he was sorry and they had told him that the skis were Alcans. Long story/short, he sent me back $150. I sent off to Sears-Roebuck for a set of 'You finish 'em" water skis that were laminated wood to increase the footprint area. I installed a steel skeg on the bottoms, bolted them on the Federals with carraige bolts, built my own bungees and limiting cables, and flew them for three winters. Built my own tail ski too. Sold them to another pilot when I rotated back to fhe lower 48. Maybe they're still up there. In those days everyone used straight skis. The only wheel skis I ever had seen were on a C-47 (DC-3).
$300 was more than a Months pay for a Master Sergeant in 1948. I could not have afforded to fly a hell of a lot in those days since 80 octane avgas was $.32/Gal. Fortunately, my uncle had scads of 6 x 6 trucks all over the place full of mogas which might have gone to waste if I hadn't appropriated it.
Damn, but I had fun in Alaska! They shipped my sorry ass out after my fourth extension of my tour. Made me go to Randolph AFB in San Antonio and be a flight engineer instructor on the B-29s.

[GAHorn]

Thank God we taxpayers finally got some work out of you!

[db99577]

We have a set of Landis L2500A skis on the 170, and a set of Aero 3000 on the (Greg's old) cub. Having the luck to fly several varieties of skis on cubs, I like the Aero 300 best over 2000, Landis straight, and Landis wheel penetration. Although penetration skis are used with a different intent.
Tighter turning, and the Aero's floated over and through the abundant overflow earlier this winter.
As someone offered to buy our Landis skis and Novak brakes, I believe we'll buy some Aero's for the 170. I'll look on the website and see if Aero 3000 are appropriate for a 170.

Red Landis Skis

Yellow Aero 3000

[blueldr]

George,
I'm kinda surprised that you were already a tax payer back in 1951.

[ak2711c]

I have run the Aero 3000's with the T3000 tail ski on my 170B for about 10 years now and love them. They have a little bit more square inches of foot print than the Landis 2500 but as you can see in the pictures they do it by being shorter and wider. Because they are shorter and slightly concaved they greatly reduce the twisting stress on the gear legs as you are turning. This also helps it turn easier and with our limited rudder authority and tail wheel steering thats a big deal. The other thing I love about them is the extra axle hole so that you can use a dolly to easily get it in and out of the hanger or even to taxi down the ramp to the ski strip. One other tidbit that not many people are aware of is Aero updates their price list every other year on even years. They typically go up around 5% each time. So that price list is good through the end of the ski season but next fall it will be slightly more. Not trying to pressure anybody just don't want anyone to be dissappointed later.
All this talk of ski flying has me itching to do some. I think another field test is in order. Good luck.
Shawn