Advice for major repair

[Lopez]

The use of Jigs or fixtures is far less important than the guy doing the repair. I've personally rebuilt airplanes from wrecks much worse than that without a jig that flew straight. Find someone who has been doing this kind of work for a long time and has a reputation for quality work. They probably do have a jig, but they may or may not use it. One of the absolute best shops I know will reskin the top of a hail-damaged wings without even removing them from the airplane. Technique is far more important than a jig.

[GAHorn]

I don't mean any disrespect but any shop that has the tools and doesn't use them appropriately is not the shop I want working on my airplane. My own flaps were recently corrected by a very talented shop by removing them and putting them in jig to hold them while their upper skins were re-rivetted.
They needed such work because the previous restoration on them did not use proper jigs. It's pretty difficult to re-skin anything larger than a small repair, such as a control surface or wing, without each rivet imparting pressure or twist into the surface as it is "bucked", which eventually has a cumulative effect over a large area such as a contol surface/wing/etc. My flaps were previously beautifully reskinned....with an ugly twist such that one end was out-of-plane with the other.... their trailing edges showed about 1-1/2-inches of twist. (I almost refused to buy my pride-and-joy over those ugly flaps. It took me 9 years to find the shop I trusted to make them right.) Drilling out the upper skins relaxed the flaps, but if they'd simply been re-rivetted again the same errors would have been repeated.
By drilling out the upper skin, placing the flaps in a jig which held them rigidly while the skin was re-rivetted... the result was flaps that finished up aligned with the rest of the trailing edges just like they were supposed to be. (In fact, I don't know how anyone could drill out the shifted-rivet-holes without a jig. When the upper skin is removed and the flaps are then twisted to be properly aligned, the previous rivet-holes are no longer in alignment....they are now off-set from each-other. Unless the flaps are rigidly held in a fixture/jig.... then the holes cannot be accurately reamed/drilled to accept the new rivets which re-attach the skins. Without a fixture/jig the result would have been an expensive repeat of the previous error.

[jwsowles]

This is all incredibly helpful. My adjuster comes tomorrow and I'll ask some of these questions. I like the idea of having the attack plane cover the costs to make me whole. I love my plane and just want it back so I can fly. Unfortunately, the owner let his insurance lapse. So it could get nasty which is just what I did not want to happen, especially at a small airport where we are generally all good folks and friends. I'll gather my options and weigh the pros and cons (not necessarily in $$). Especially appreciate learning of shops who can do the work well. Thanks again to all who've replied. Guess I joined the right club.

John

[mit]

If you can out think the insurance company and the lawyers with a prediction. Then I want to go to Vegas with You George!

[flyguy]

It is almost 3000 miles away from you but Delair in Porterville, CA could fix that. There may be some good shops closer to you. Good luck. It definitely looks like it is worth saving.

In between* is our very own "WINGNUT". Call Del (if he isn't lurking around here somewhere) and see if he has some ideas for you. I have seen him (them) work, as Geo. Horn and Richard have, and my 'for what it's worth' is that he is one of the best.

*Mena Arkansas is somewhere between Maine and California.

[wingnut]

It is almost 3000 miles away from you but Delair in Porterville, CA could fix that. There may be some good shops closer to you. Good luck. It definitely looks like it is worth saving.

In between* is our very own "WINGNUT". Call Del (if he isn't lurking around here somewhere) and see if he has some ideas for you. I have seen him (them) work, as Geo. Horn and Richard have, and my 'for what it's worth' is that he is one of the best.

*Mena Arkansas is somewhere between Maine and California.

Lurking? . My computer has been down for a "D" check. I've been using my wifes iPhone for checking email. Thanks for the plug!

[hilltop170]

I agree with Ole Gar, Del and his guys at Mountain Airframe, 479-437-3333, have done extensive metal work on my C-170 and it is absolutely the best quality available.

Del can also coordinate with the other shops on the field to have just about any other work needed to bring your plane back to like it was, reducing your anxiety of having to manage every detail of the repairs.

Del gave me quotes on all his work prior to starting the job and held to the quotes. He is honest and more than fair.

[Lopez]

George, no offense taken whatsoever. I know what I know because I've seen it first hand over and over. Some people think jigs are the only way to get it right, I know that's not the case because I've done it without and seen the pros do it without. My dad taught me how and he was taught by a shop full of eastern and panam tin-peckers in corrosion corner back in the 60s and 70s. He taught me techniques so I don't need a jig for most of the repairs I do. I still want one, and as soon as I get my hands on a set of wings and a free month, I'll build one.

The bottom line here is make sure you get a shop with a good rep. Odds are they'll use a jig, but they may not. If they are a reputable shop that you can trust, than trust them to do what they are good at. If the insurance company wants to total it, let me know so I can keep an eye on the auctions.

[minton]

John,

I've been in the business a long time. The first question is was the guy insured?? If he was, turn it over to his insurance company.

Based on what damage I saw, the insurance company would probably "Total" it. In some cases (very few) you will then be afforded to oportunity to "Buy it back" for considerably less than you consider it to be worth. Most bidding would come in around $6-8k if it's put up for bid by the insurance company.

I have bought a few "Totals" along the way and have found alot of hidden damage that drives the repair costs well above the actual value of the finished product.(Unless you have a pile of spare parts laying around). Don't forget that after the dust settles you have a major repair in the log book and that does'nt help when you are looking for a buyer down the road. Not to mention the warnings by BL reguarding "Bad" repairs.

If you receive a settlement go buy a straight one. If you don't, go buy a straight one.

Good luck

[GAHorn]

My brand new, to me, 170B was damaged yesterday when another AC broke loose in high winds and landed on top of mine. ...John - - N4374B

John, have you approached your airport authority to discuss their collusion in this matter? Do they seem to realize that their responsibility and failure to provide adequate tie-downs and distance from other aircraft make them accomplices in the damages you've suffered? (Have you ever complained to the airport about the tie-downs? Do they impose a charge for tie-downs?....or were they "free"...? )

[minton]

Here in the far north, tiedowns are somewhat problematic as there is so much wind and moisture to contend with. It seems that through the legal wranglings it has been determined in the courts that the below ground portion (anchors, cables and rings) are the responcibility of the airport or business owner. The above ground portion is the responcibilty of the tiedown renter. This includes the knots used. Most transient spots require the user to provide the above ground portion.

I make it a habit to check all the renters around me for adequate tiedowns. You would'nt believe what some others consider adequate! ie, hemp, cotton etc.

Unlike trees falling on your neighbors house anything impacting the tiedown neighbor is the responciblity of that projectiles owner if it's an aircraft or part thereof and is not an "Act of God" according to the Alaska courts.

This is only my experience and not being a lawyer and I'm sure that I'll be torn apart on this one.