Guys:
My job has caused me to relocate to 3 different states, pretty far apart, in the last 5 years so it has been a challenge finding someone to do annuals that I trust, for the right cost, etc.
When I moved here to Alabama, I asked around and even talked to some members of the cessna 170 club and they recommended a shop at Pell City which shall remain un-named. I made the mistake of not asking what an annual would cost. I assisted on that annual by removing and re-installing the interior, removing and re-installing all inspection panels, re-built the fuel selector valve, installed ELT and RCMP batteries. I supplied oil, oil filter, tires and tubes so the cost of these items were not in the cost of the annual. When I got the bill, I almost S___, it came to $1,600! This was an absolutely zero squawk annual, with me doing all the work above, and supplying all of the parts listed. The shop is now out of business so I'm not talking about any shop that exists at Pell City Alabama at this time. Plus, my wife gave me grief for a year for not asking how much this annual would cost up front and every time she spent money and I started to complain, she shut me down pretty quick. So, this annual cost me a lost more than $1,600!
Needless to say, the next year I went to another shop and pretty much did the same things with the exception of not replacing ELT and RCMP batteries and not rebuilding the fuel selector valve, except I did the removal and re-install of tires as well as the re-pack of wheel bearings. Invoice amount, $800 for a zero squawk annual, again with me doing much of the work.
This year I found another shop and all I did was take the interior out before flying it over (with the exception of the pilot's seat, of course), supplied the usual oil and parts, and they did everything, and I mean EVERYTHING else while all I did was watch and ask a few questions. They billed me for 9.5 hours at $55 per hour or $522.50. These guys' quality was better than most of the other annuals I've had and they were careful with my airplane and really knew their stuff. The shop is Custom Aircraft Works in Sylacauga, Alabama and Ray Lett is the I&A and owner. I recommend them without reservation.
Regards,
Curt
Annual Inspection Cost
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
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hilltop170
- Posts: 3481
- Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 6:05 pm
Curt-
George is compiling a "Mechanics and Shops Directory" in "The MX Library" section of the Forum. Why don't you fill out his questionaire and forward it to him so others can benefit from your experience and give the good shops more business.
George is compiling a "Mechanics and Shops Directory" in "The MX Library" section of the Forum. Why don't you fill out his questionaire and forward it to him so others can benefit from your experience and give the good shops more business.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
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Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10320
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Curt
Sounds like you found your new shop and IA. And from another of your posts it sounds like he found and complied with an AD that should have been done in '82 (the hole in the breather line).
It's unfortunate but I think many shops think that they should more carefully inspect a plane (read that charge more money) the first time they see it. Of course that is not the case, every inspection should have the same detail.
Your last experience sounds like a good deal.
Sounds like you found your new shop and IA. And from another of your posts it sounds like he found and complied with an AD that should have been done in '82 (the hole in the breather line).
It's unfortunate but I think many shops think that they should more carefully inspect a plane (read that charge more money) the first time they see it. Of course that is not the case, every inspection should have the same detail.
Your last experience sounds like a good deal.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Flat rate for a 170/172 cessna is 14-16 hours for 100/annual. Your last experience sounds like you found an honest fair shop since they apparently deducted for not having to R&R the interior. Of course have you seen the price lists for some shops? $50 labour per hour, $60 if you watch, $100 if you help, so the first shop wasn't to far out of line 
52 170B s/n 20446
56 172 s/n 28162
Echo Weed eater, Jezebeel
56 172 s/n 28162
Echo Weed eater, Jezebeel
Wow!Indopilot wrote:Flat rate for a 170/172 cessna is 14-16 hours for 100/annual.
My annuals with me helping run about 3 hours of paid time (my IA) and 7 hours of my time (but I am slooooow). At $75 per hour that's about $225 for the inspection portion. Of course any discrepancy's are extra, but most of it I can handle under his supervision. When actual skill or brain power is needed he comes to help. 
My IA is a 170 lover and has rebuilt several from the ground up so he knows what to look for. I know how lucky I am to have him. I have never had an annual over $500 total, most around $350, but I try to stay on top of everything all year long.John
N2865C
"The only stupid question is one that wasn't asked"
N2865C
"The only stupid question is one that wasn't asked"
Bruce, you are absolutely correct that a shop will (and should) go over things more carefully if they haven't seen a plane before. Once you sign off the annual you are now taking credit (or blame) for EVERYTHING done to it before - all repairs, mods, airworthiness decisions (is that stringer corroded beyond limits? is that stop-drilled crack OK?). If you do not look over every AD compliance, repairs, and alterations then you are just asking for trouble. And that time costs money.
so, Curt, find a shop and get to know them, and let them get to know your airplane, and quit hunting around (moving to a new state is a different situation but unfortunately puts you back in the "get to know me" status).
this works the same way when you buy a new plane - ever hear of anybody being surprised to find some things that were not disclosed by the seller? I've never bought a plane yet that we didn't find many items that we weren't happy with and had to make right. Part of the negotiations, and it's the same way for your shop. Except they aren't buying the plane, just assuming all the responsibility for the work of others. Sure if the FAA doesn't like something someday the owner gets dinged, but then they go after whomever signed it off - certificate action.
That's the system we live in, agree with it or not. Off my mechanic soapbox now, resuming normal pilot persona.
Hans
so, Curt, find a shop and get to know them, and let them get to know your airplane, and quit hunting around (moving to a new state is a different situation but unfortunately puts you back in the "get to know me" status).
this works the same way when you buy a new plane - ever hear of anybody being surprised to find some things that were not disclosed by the seller? I've never bought a plane yet that we didn't find many items that we weren't happy with and had to make right. Part of the negotiations, and it's the same way for your shop. Except they aren't buying the plane, just assuming all the responsibility for the work of others. Sure if the FAA doesn't like something someday the owner gets dinged, but then they go after whomever signed it off - certificate action.
That's the system we live in, agree with it or not. Off my mechanic soapbox now, resuming normal pilot persona.
Hans
'56 "C170 and change"
'52 Packard 200
'68 Arctic Cat P12 Panther
"He's a menace to everything in the air. Yes, birds too." - Airplane
'52 Packard 200
'68 Arctic Cat P12 Panther
"He's a menace to everything in the air. Yes, birds too." - Airplane
The philosophy of particular shops vary widely.
If you go to a shop that views an annual inspection as a "service interval" ...then it will certainly run up the costs.
If you visit a shop that recognizes an inspection only as an inspection...then you'll realize a much smaller invoice for that work.
The items to be completed are described in FAR 43, Appdx D. for Part 91 aircraft. They basically only require that the engine/airframe be cleaned and inspected, avionics inspected for security of mounting, required instrument markings and placards installed, seat belts inspected, the oil screens/filters be checked for contamination/metal, a compression test be made, and the engine run up. AD's should be researched and the list updated.
The point is, an inspection...is an inspection. While it may discover items that need work, the inspection itself does not have to result in a service interval. The inspector should give a list of discrepancies to the owner, who can then take care of those discrepancies where he chooses, including accomplishing the work himself if capable. Any A&P can then approve the aircraft for return to service.
My annual inspections typically cost $200-$250. My annual service typically runs somewhat more, of course.
If you go to a shop that views an annual inspection as a "service interval" ...then it will certainly run up the costs.
If you visit a shop that recognizes an inspection only as an inspection...then you'll realize a much smaller invoice for that work.
The items to be completed are described in FAR 43, Appdx D. for Part 91 aircraft. They basically only require that the engine/airframe be cleaned and inspected, avionics inspected for security of mounting, required instrument markings and placards installed, seat belts inspected, the oil screens/filters be checked for contamination/metal, a compression test be made, and the engine run up. AD's should be researched and the list updated.
The point is, an inspection...is an inspection. While it may discover items that need work, the inspection itself does not have to result in a service interval. The inspector should give a list of discrepancies to the owner, who can then take care of those discrepancies where he chooses, including accomplishing the work himself if capable. Any A&P can then approve the aircraft for return to service.
My annual inspections typically cost $200-$250. My annual service typically runs somewhat more, of course.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Annual Inspection Cost
The $522.50 included all the things you would expect in an annual such as lubrication of all controls, re-packing wheel bearings, cleaning/inspection of screens/filters, oil change, etc. I also forgot to mention that included in this figure is a 500 hour inspection on both Slick mags. I watched them perform the mag inspection and as far as I could tell they did most, if not all of the inspection steps that "mag shops" were quoting around $175 per mag, not including shipping, to do.
They also replaced my left muffler with a rebuilt unit from one of the shops recommended by members on this site and charge 1.5 hours for the removal and reinstall of that.
An interesting aside, they charged me $373 for the muffler plus $12.60 for shipping on said muffler, which is less than the $403.75 I was quoted directly by the same muffler rebuid shop, and that $403.75 included our association discount. I'm haven't investigated why the difference in price and I'm not going to as I do no look gift horses in the mouth. Maybe the rebuild shop gives even a more favorable price to maintenance shops than they do to us directly?
Regards,
Curt
They also replaced my left muffler with a rebuilt unit from one of the shops recommended by members on this site and charge 1.5 hours for the removal and reinstall of that.
An interesting aside, they charged me $373 for the muffler plus $12.60 for shipping on said muffler, which is less than the $403.75 I was quoted directly by the same muffler rebuid shop, and that $403.75 included our association discount. I'm haven't investigated why the difference in price and I'm not going to as I do no look gift horses in the mouth. Maybe the rebuild shop gives even a more favorable price to maintenance shops than they do to us directly?
Regards,
Curt
Curt, if you'll send me a copy of the mfr's quote, and the name of the shop you dealt with (contact info) I can follow up on this.
But I suspect we already know the answer: Most industries offer "industry discounts" to repair shops. This allows them to make a fair "mark up" on the parts. Most shops then invoice full retail to their customers. Some shops don't charge full retail. (They give favored status to favored customers which may be a deeply discounted parts price.)
The discount offered to us (TIC170A Members) from selected/participating mfr's/remanufacturers is in the 10-15% range. We've been able to negotiate more than that in a few cases.
So an ordinary owner might contact ABC mufflers and be quoted $500.
A TIC170A Member might be quoted $425.
An authorized shop might be quoted an industry-discount of $325,...but that shop, in making their fair-profit as a parts supplier, might charge an ordinary retail customer $500, and might charge a favored customer $400. (Of course, the shop also made something on the installation as well, while the owner may have been qualified to install it himself.)
But I suspect we already know the answer: Most industries offer "industry discounts" to repair shops. This allows them to make a fair "mark up" on the parts. Most shops then invoice full retail to their customers. Some shops don't charge full retail. (They give favored status to favored customers which may be a deeply discounted parts price.)
The discount offered to us (TIC170A Members) from selected/participating mfr's/remanufacturers is in the 10-15% range. We've been able to negotiate more than that in a few cases.
So an ordinary owner might contact ABC mufflers and be quoted $500.
A TIC170A Member might be quoted $425.
An authorized shop might be quoted an industry-discount of $325,...but that shop, in making their fair-profit as a parts supplier, might charge an ordinary retail customer $500, and might charge a favored customer $400. (Of course, the shop also made something on the installation as well, while the owner may have been qualified to install it himself.)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
I have never paid over $200 for an annual inspection on a stock C-170B.
This always includes the inspection only, the AD search, and a list of the discrepencies found.
I personally complete a standard 100 hr. inspection (I am an A&P) and sign off the airplanes airworthiness. Any airplane that needs extensive work as the result of an annual inspection probably is being sadly neglected during the rest of the year and and perhaps should be inspected at more frequent intervals.
This always includes the inspection only, the AD search, and a list of the discrepencies found.
I personally complete a standard 100 hr. inspection (I am an A&P) and sign off the airplanes airworthiness. Any airplane that needs extensive work as the result of an annual inspection probably is being sadly neglected during the rest of the year and and perhaps should be inspected at more frequent intervals.
BL
Well, you guys seem to find really low cost inspections. In my area they're a bit more. I do think that blueldr has a good point. Many (not TIC170A members) do nothing to the plane between annuals. I see that at my local airport.blueldr wrote: Any airplane that needs extensive work as the result of an annual inspection probably is being sadly neglected during the rest of the year and and perhaps should be inspected at more frequent intervals.
I find it advantageous to keep everything up so I don't take the hit at inspection time, not to mention, I like my plane safe and sound!
Bruce
1950 170A N5559C
1950 170A N5559C
The B's are GREAT airplanes! But Dick's post points out another advantage of the A model. I have never paid over $175 for an annual inspection on a stock C-170A. It might be those flap tracks, or maybe the bent wing angle has to be checked!blueldr wrote:I have never paid over $200 for an annual inspection on a stock C-170B.
This always includes the inspection only, the AD search, and a list of the discrepencies found.
I personally complete a standard 100 hr. inspection (I am an A&P) and sign off the airplanes airworthiness. Any airplane that needs extensive work as the result of an annual inspection probably is being sadly neglected during the rest of the year and and perhaps should be inspected at more frequent intervals.
At 6 months - filters are changed, plugs cleaned & rotated, compression check, airframe lubricated, etc. At one semi-annual inspection the compression check found a cylinder crack. The plane flew fine, and there was no hint that such a problem existed. Am sure time would have changed that if it had not been found by the compression check. A year sure seems like a long time to wait between inspections on 50+ year old airplanes.
Joe
51 C170A
Grand Prairie, TX
51 C170A
Grand Prairie, TX
Gotta have those big ones heh!
Around 10 years ago my neighbor had a flat in his Stingray in front of my place. I had watched him with envy tooling around in that car for a long time, and when he was working on the flat I jokingly said if you can't get any further than that in it you ought to sell it to me. Well, the next day it was mine and I started discovering how expensive corvette parts are. Not only that, his live in girlfriend says "you know why most guys want a corvette Joe?" My thoughts were performance, looks, fun, etc. She continued, "the long front end is a substitute for not having a big ___!"
Around 10 years ago my neighbor had a flat in his Stingray in front of my place. I had watched him with envy tooling around in that car for a long time, and when he was working on the flat I jokingly said if you can't get any further than that in it you ought to sell it to me. Well, the next day it was mine and I started discovering how expensive corvette parts are. Not only that, his live in girlfriend says "you know why most guys want a corvette Joe?" My thoughts were performance, looks, fun, etc. She continued, "the long front end is a substitute for not having a big ___!"
Joe
51 C170A
Grand Prairie, TX
51 C170A
Grand Prairie, TX