A&P/IA for pre-buy inspection

ppoeppelman · Post by **ppoeppelman** » Wed May 13, 2015 1:57 am

Hi all. My name is Phil and I am new to the forum. My wife and I are in the market for a 170. I was hoping you all might be able to recommend an IA very knowledgable with the ADs and common issue areas with the 170. We've narrowed the search to airplanes in NC, TX an Southern CA. If you have any recommendations of IAs in those areas please let me know. Once we purchase the airplane it will be based in Walterboro SC. Thanks

hilltop170 · Post by **hilltop170** » Wed May 13, 2015 5:25 pm

Hi Phil-
The association has members in all of the areas you mention so when you find a good candidate, make another post on where it is and I'm sure you will get some replies. There are good IAs in all of those areas. And if you decide to buy a 170, please consider joining the association, there are many resources available to members which are especially helpful to new owners. We would also like to extend an invitation to join us at our annual Convention held this year at Gulf Shores, Alabama. There you will meet and be able to discuss C-170s with many friendly knowledgable 170 folks. Good luck with your search for the right 170 and an advance welcome to TIC170A.

busav8or · Post by **busav8or** » Thu May 14, 2015 12:43 pm

I would recommend Russell Hyde at Plane Werks in Rutherfordton, NC. He is an A&P IA and I've been using him for the past 4 years for my 170B. His number is (828) 286-1474. He not only works on old airplanes but owns and flies them himself.

Good luck,
Joe

Post by **GAHorn** » Thu May 14, 2015 4:38 pm

For a TExas inspection.... We have a MEMBER in TIC170A who is nearby Houston Southwest at Wolf Airpark. He owns a 170 of course, is an A&P/IA, and participates in some of our Texas fly ins.

OK, here it 'tis:
Contact John Heitz
281-309-1959

ppoeppelman · Post by **ppoeppelman** » Tue May 19, 2015 1:08 pm

Thanks for your replies. I will definitely consider Russell Hyde in Rutherfordton NC. The airplane we are currently looking at is based in Danville VA. Does anyone have a recommendation of someone a little closer? Rutherfordton is 3+15 hours driving. The airplane's annual expired in January, so if we go through with this it might be a combined Pre-buy/Annual inspection. Nothing has been finalized, but we are making a trip upon friday to look at the airplane and go from there. Thanks for everyones input.

Phil

GregJ · Post by **GregJ** » Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:36 pm

Hello everyone,

My name is Greg, I just joined recently. Ive been looking for a 170B for a little while now, and found an airplane. Everything Ive read and all the people Ive talked to speak highly of the 170, which helped me make up my mind to try and find one for my first airplane. I recently earned my tailwheel endorsement, had an amazing time doing so, and really look forward to enjoying a different type of flying than my daily job. Unfortunately, the plane I found is not a 170, but a 172 converted to tailwheel. I have seen a few 170's that were what I was looking for, but they were gone before I was ready to move on them. On paper, this a/c is what I am looking for and thanks to a lot of reading and some very generous advice by friends and colleagues much more knowledgeable than I am, I think its time to start making phone calls and see if I can arrange a prebuy inspection.

The airplane is in northern Maine, so that is where I am looking for an A&P. Im hoping I wont get "boo-ed" of the stage, so to speak, asking for help for a non 170

Thanks in advance

-Greg

bagarre · Post by **bagarre** » Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:43 pm

A 172TD is a very nice airplane. It's pretty much what the 170C was going to be.

If it's a straight tail 172. I hear the slant tails dont make very good taildraggers as there isnt as much rudder authority. (So I've been told - I've never flown one)

Post by **GAHorn** » Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:34 pm

First of all... WELCOME!
This Assoc'n does not discriminate against owners of other models of airplanes... in fact many of our Members own other makes...some of them don't own an airplane at all!
We WELCOME ANYONE who is interested in Cessna 170's primarily... but anyone who owns another model is very welcome.

Now, as to opinions about 172 taildraggers...

My own opinion of them is that they can be fine airplanes. One of their chief advantages is that if a recent conversion, they can be of a much later year-model 172, which can incorporate all kinds of improvements over earlier airplanes. They will likely meet later certification standards, have later wiring and construction features, later avionics, and perhaps some addt'l safety features. They may also have a greater useful load and later engine design. I disagree about the swept tail having less authority than the straight tail, but I can see where that might be a popular belief because the swept tail airplane does not enter/exit a spin as sweetly as the straight tail airplanes. This was discussed by WD Thompson, Cessna Test Pilot, who drew attention to the longer dorsal fairing which accompanies the swept tail. That dorsal fin added directional stability in yaw, which in turn makes the airplane more difficult to deliberately spin. In fact, special instructions were issued to flight instructors regarding a particular technique of entering and exiting spins in swept tail aircraft. (I won't go into that here as it is too lengthy, but let it suffice to say that the matter gave the impression that a swept vertical and rudder was authoritative than the straight version, but that is not exactly true.)
It should also be remembered that many 170 aircraft have undergone heavy reconstruction/remodeling which can introduce many of the features of later aircraft such as modern wiring, avionics, later engines, etc.

From reading your comments it sounds as if you 1- want a 4-place Cessna and 2- wish it to be a taildragger and 3- haven't easily found a 170 you like which remains on the market long enough for you to make a decision upon it.
This has led you to consider a 172TD because it meets the general characteristics you prefer but is a model which stays on the market sufficiently longer so you can take more time to consider it.
I feel I must tell you that ordinarily, highly modified airplanes don't have a large market. This not only affects the number available on the market, but also the amount of time they spend looking for new owners. This is also a factor when maintaining them and, when the time comes, to finding a buyer for that different airplane.

You comments leads me to believe you are "settling" for a different airplane than the one you truly desire.

The reason clean 170s disappear to new owners so quickly is because they are highly desirable.
The reason converted airplanes stay on the market longer is because they are less so. (This is due to many reasons, but consider for a moment what you will do to obtain parts for a converted airplane whose conversion-parts are needed for repair. Where will you obtain them? How readily available are they?
Don't take the sellers statements on those questions seriously. Find a supplier of those parts and find out how their availability, cost, and how long you'll have to wait while the parts are made, and under what basis of approval the mfr'g of the parts will be.

If you want a 170.... I recommend you get your own finances and inspection requirements ready for action...and be patient, and be persistent in seeking one.

hilltop170 · Post by **hilltop170** » Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:37 pm

Hi Greg-
Welcome to TIC170A! We are always happy to get new members and like George said, an interest in C-170s is all that is required. I agree with what George said about defining what you really want and then be ready to buy when the right airplane presents itself. If you have already found the "one" then congratulations but if the 172TD conversion is not really what you are looking for, then keep looking. 170s come up on the market all the time.

In the past, I have waited and looked at many airplanes two different times for specific airplanes that I was interested in. In one case, I looked at 52 different Super Cubs before I found the right one. In the other case I looked at 24 C-195s before I bought one. It does take time and there can be a few dry runs but in the end you will find the right plane. Good luck and don't settle for a plane you really don't want.

bigrenna · Post by **bigrenna** » Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:29 am

delete

GregJ · Post by **GregJ** » Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:12 pm

Wow, Im quite overwhelmed by the replies. Thank you all very much! Your depth of knowledge and enthusiasm is very contagious. I admit to being nervous, anxious, apprehensive of this entire process, buying an airplane seems easy to talk about, but the farther I move forward, the more I wonder if I really know what I am doing. I have been so lucky to have people figuratively coming out of the woodwork to give me advice. What a wonderful community to be a part of.

I didnt think I was settling for an airplane until now, perhaps I am, Im not sure. One of the reasons I want to move forward is that I only have one set of days off each month, so I have to try and fit everything in at one time. Ive some more reading to do and the logs to go back over again upon the advice of the local mechanics.

Thank you all again for the advice and interest!

-Greg

hilltop170 · Post by **hilltop170** » Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:52 pm

Aryana wrote:I don't think I've seen 24 different C-195's in my entire lifetime! That's awesome Richard...

Arash, I tend to be overly cautious on large purchases and usually have a definite idea of what I want before I will settle for less. It took two years and travel all over the US, Canada, and Alaska before I found the "right" C-195 just 62 miles from where I live. Looking at all those planes was more of a fun adventure than an ordeal. Ina and I made the inspection trips into mini-vacations going places we had never been before and meeting some great folks along the way. Starting with little knowledge of 195s in general, by the time I finally found it, I really knew what I wanted.

That being said, I wasn't always that cautious. When I was 21 years old and a little more impulsive (ignorant) than I am now, I had never seen a C-170 before I saw mine and thought it was the most beautiful plane I had ever seen. I bought it immediately without even a pre-purchase inspection. I just happened to luck out and get a good one but after that I got more cautious.

In 2007 at the 195 Club convention in Wichita for the 60 year anniversary of the 195, there were 73 195s tied down side-by-side down. There was 1/2 mile of 195s along that taxiway. It was a sight to behold!

lowNslow · Post by **lowNslow** » Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:07 pm

hilltop170 wrote:
Aryana wrote:I don't think I've seen 24 different C-195's in my entire lifetime! That's awesome Richard...
In 2007 at the 195 Club convention in Wichita for the 60 year anniversary of the 195, there were 73 195s tied down side-by-side down. There was 1/2 mile of 195s along that taxiway. It was a sight to behold!

Pictures

hilltop170 · Post by **hilltop170** » Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:11 pm

I do have a panoramic picture of that but have gone from PC to Mac since then and would have to find it. I tried to find it on the 195 website but was not able.

hilltop170 · Post by **hilltop170** » Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:45 pm

lowNslow wrote:
hilltop170 wrote:
Aryana wrote:I don't think I've seen 24 different C-195's in my entire lifetime! That's awesome Richard...
In 2007 at the 195 Club convention in Wichita for the 60 year anniversary of the 195, there were 73 195s tied down side-by-side down. There was 1/2 mile of 195s along that taxiway. It was a sight to behold!
Pictures

Aryana wrote:Richard, I would love to see that picture too. I was lucky to hook up with a friend in a nearby hangar that had a 190 & 195. I got to fly the 195 a lot and fell in love. That 300 hp "Shakey Jake" was fun to work on and always made me smile when we pulled the pins and swung the whole engine and prop over to the side.

My EAA chapter president has a really nice 195 that I have yet to go up in but it makes me lust after a round engine Cessna badly!

OK Karl and Arash, I spent several hours searching for these pictures. Like I said earlier, I switched from PC to Apple and do not have a good way to transfer pictures from one to the other so I just took screen pictures off of the PC with my iPad. Then, I had to reduce the resolution in order to upload to the this site. So, the quality is not so good but you can still get the idea of what I described. The line of 195s goes over the hill and I could not get a better angle for the picture.

The picture shows the 1/2 mile line of C-190/195s at the 2007 C-195 Club fly-in in Wichita for the 60th anniversary of the 190 series. Even with some of the planes double-stacked in the tiedowns, with 73 planes there, they stretched over 1/2 mile down the taxiway.

Also at that fly-in were several Cessna employees from the 1940s and 1950s. Mort Brown and Darrel Worley were two of the test pilots who did the production test flights on C-170s and C-190/195s. Anyone who had their original aircraft logbooks with them got them signed again by the original test pilot. My 195 was test flown by Mort Brown and since I knew he was going to be there, I took my original logbook and at 99 years old, had Mort re-sign it. Mort did not test fly my C-170 but did fly the s/n on either side of mine, bummer.

: 1/2 mile of C-190/195s at 60th anniversary fly-in at Wichita, 2007

: Cessna Production Test pilot Mort Brown re-signing the first entry in the airplane logbook

: Mort Brown, Cessna Production Test pilot at age 99 in 2007

The International Cessna 170 Association