tuskegee airmen

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iowa
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tuskegee airmen

Post by iowa »

[broken link]

i had a patient come see me today.
thomas smith.
raised in casey, iowa which is just south of us about 15mi.
he told me about how the tuskegee airmen were recently honored.
he flew 50 missions over germany in wwii in a B-17!!
these airmen escorted them several times
and he said they did not loose any planes
this was in 1943.
told me about how he went to nashville to see the memphis belle.
it was guarded and when asked if he could show his lady friend inside
he was told no!
then he explained about his 50 missions,
and they let him have a look!!
iowa
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1951 170A 1468D SN 20051
1942 L-4B 2764C USAAC 43-572 (9433)
AME #17747
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GAHorn
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Re: tuskegee airmen

Post by GAHorn »

iowa wrote:...if he could show his lady friend inside
he was told no!
then he explained about his 50 missions,
and they let him have a look!!
iowa
So...now he has 51 missions? :lol:
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
iowa
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Post by iowa »

it quite a mission for him to get a look.
he said the memphis belle crew only flew 25 missions.
he flew 50!!
he also told me that most planes went down
due to flak then fighter planes.
iowa
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1951 170A 1468D SN 20051
1942 L-4B 2764C USAAC 43-572 (9433)
AME #17747
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GAHorn
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Post by GAHorn »

As the U.S. Army Air Corp began daylight bombing over Europe, the loss rate was very high. The Luftwaffe was in better shape at that time, and the British considered the Americans suicide-prone, carpet-bombers. As the war progressed and the Germans were beaten down somewhat, and the survivability improved for various reasons (better escort, lesser Luftwaffe, etc.), the missions flown until recall for crews was extended to 30, then 35, then more missions.
My Dad was in Liberators from Sep. 44 until the end in May '45. He flew 33 missions and lost many friends. (And he and his crew claimed a Me262.) His unit, 466th BG, based in Attlebridge, East Anglia, (near Norwich) lost the last bomber over enemy territory of the war. It was a B-24 named "Black Cat". The crew was hit by flak. There is a book about it written by one of the two survivors of the crash.
There was also a US Postage stamp issued about the plane. Here's a picture of the doomed crew.
A10595A2-290C-4A64-82A4-5B86E6D79621.jpeg
And the plane and markings:
95E85289-7E36-4B83-B9E0-5F311B554878.jpeg
A short article about it:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 36_pf.html

More about the 466th including photos.
Last edited by GAHorn on Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
dacker
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Post by dacker »

Uh.. George, I think you need to reread the article... he died on impact.

I have read of an airman freefalling into a snow bank and living to tell the tale, don't remember the details.
David
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170C
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Falling From a Plane w/o parachute

Post by 170C »

Many, many yrs ago Readers Digest had an article that as a youngster caught my interest. A B-17 tail gunner was in a flight and they were hit by flak or fighters or both. The plane caught fire and were ordered to bail out. The tail gunner opened the door behind his compartment to retrieve his chute and found it on fire. His decision was to die in a crash, be burned to death or jump. He took the 3rd option and as luck would have it he fell over a forest, hit in the trees, broke limbs (on the tree) and finally into deep snow. He had a lot of broken bones & internal injuries, but lived. When captured by the German's they questioned him at length, before they would get him his needed medical help, about where his chute was hidden. He finally convinced them what happened and eventually received the medical procedures. He was the author of the artcle. Wish I still had it to reread.
OLE POKEY
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GAHorn
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Post by GAHorn »

Yep, I had only quickly scanned that article, and mistakenly assigned it to another incident in the history of the Bomb group. There are several incidents in aviation history in which someone has left an airplane at altitude and survived without a parachute. I recall one Navy flier who hit the ocean...lost his spleen but survived. A Swissair flight attendant got sucked out the rear of a DC-9 over the alps and survived. A Russian holds the world's record for a time, and may still....
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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Romeo Tango
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Adding a tiny page to the story, but an important one...

Post by Romeo Tango »

I just had an amazing flying experience, and I never left the ground. I have to share it with my flying friends, and ask you to forward it as you see fit.

I was at my flying club, waiting for a student, and chatting with the staff. Two men were talking with the front desk about learning to fly, and the younger (the son, probably about 55 years old) asked if was okay to just fly enough to solo once. I interjected that it is, and that some students want to fly just once, let alone solo. I never pressure my clients to go further or faster than they are able or interested. We chatted some more, and he said offhand, that his father (standing next to him) was a pilot, and what would it take to renew his certificate? Were there any age limits? I said no, as long as it was not ATP commercial he would be fine. There are some older licenses that are no longer valid (like ones with horsepower ratings) but that was a solvable detail.

It was then that he mentioned he had flown B17s in WII, and that he had trained in a BT13.

I have a soft spot for heroes, known or unknown. So the conversation went from me pitching my craft to get a new client, to Richard as escort.

I told him that a friend of a friend owns a BT13, and it's often parked here at the airport. I wasn't sure if it was here today, but we could go take a look. As we left the building I thanked the father for his service (because we can never be too grateful for their sacrifice, and we don't have many opportunities left to thank this generation in person).

As we started out the son asked if I knew much about WWII aircraft and stories, and I said I knew my share. He then told me that his father was flying a B17 on the Schweinfurt/Regensburg mission ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schweinfur ... rg_mission). Wow. I went from being host to being honor guard.

Enroute we walked past the T34 and I said that I had just checked out in it, and could not wait for my first students to take it on - it is such a remarkable machine. And it had characteristics similar to the early Navy jets. Interesting, but "too new" for him. We then borrowed a club golf cart for the trip out to the flight line, and my heart sang to see that the BT13 was proudly in its spot.

For those who don't know this airplane, it was a popular trainer for airmen preparing for fighter and bomber assignments. It is a big airplane, and in brushed aluminum it simply glows. More info at http://www.warbirdalley.com/bt13.htm.

As we approached the father's demeanour changed (his name is Mario) and he got reverential. He had tears in his eyes as he touched the airplane, and I could see 65 years disappear in a moment. He was no longer "grandpa Mario", he was "cadet Mario". His son grasped the moment as well, seeing for the first time the mount that taught his father how to fly safely enough to complete 25 B17 missions and come home to start his family. I simply stood and choked up watching a reunion between three gentle souls. And a deepening bond between father and son.

Inanimate machine? Well cared-for warbird? No, today this Vultee Valiant was on one of her most important missions ever - as an aluminum angel answering a humble prayer of thanks from an old friend.

I took their picture together with the airplane to preserve something so very special, that I was privileged to be a tiny part of. If you've seen the look in the eyes of the older man at the start of "Saving Private Ryan" you'll know exactly what I saw in Mario. I am so so so glad that my student cancelled, and I happened to be in the right place at the right time.
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3958v
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Post by 3958v »

I had a simlar but slightly different kind of experience on Saturday. Our EAA chapter had a fly-out to the Mid-Atlantic Air Museum. On these fly outs we usually offer rides to other chapter members. The fellow assighned to fly with me was a 89 year old retired aircraft desighner. The museums present large project is a Black Widow which crashed in the South Pacific during WWII. It turns out this fellow actually worked on the desighn of the P61 and the B25. It was very moving to see him examine a plane he had helped to desighn almost 70 years earlier. The fellow is mentally very much with it and I offered him a chance to fly the 170 back home and he asked for the altitude and heading. He promtly climed to that altitude on heading and never deviated more than 100ft or 10 degrees all the way home. Quite a Gentleman. I wish we still had access to some one like him from the Cessna factory.
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GAHorn
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Re:

Post by GAHorn »

iowa wrote:it quite a mission for him to get a look.
he said the memphis belle crew only flew 25 missions.
he flew 50!!
he also told me that most planes went down
due to flak then fighter planes.
iowa
The British (and Commonwealth and many others of occupied countries) flew many more missions than American crews. The British, for example, were “in the war” for the duration....there was no assigned number-of-missions where they could quit fighting. (When the Americans arrived in England they were fresh, well-equipped with cigarettes, candy, and lots of free time to spend their much-greater paychecks than the tired, experienced, and reduced-in-number British Boys. The English girls were fascinated by them and enjoyed the attention and gifts the American boys provided them. A common remark regarding the view from the British soldiers was that the relations-problem was “the Yanks are overpaid, over-sexed, and over here!” :lol:

When the “yanks” arrived, the AAF promoted the idea of daylight bombing which was contrary to popular military opinion and strategy, and was especially hazardous. Most AAF losses were during the initiation of daylight bombing. It was SO hazardous that if a crew made it through 25 missions they were allowed to “go home”. As the Luftwaffe was made less effective through the years, each crews assigned number of missions was increased, ... first to 30, then to 35 missions. By the end of the war it was at not necessarily 35. (My Dad flew 33 and was “in theater” from Sept ‘44 thru the end (May‘45) and ferried his airplane home at the end of May.

WW2 veteran’s stories are fascinating, and I’d never suggest their stories are imaginative... but memories of aged people (including myself) often fail. Although I never heard him say it, my BIL claims he was told by my father that he’d flown 8 missions on D-Day. At least my BIL believes that was what he was told In a first-hand conversation. Of course that’s an impossible story, and for several reasons, but anyone who knew my father also knew of his integrity and that he would never embellish anything at all. His crew-photo taken at the time of their embarkation/departure on their ferry-flight from Walla Walla, WA to Attlebridge, East Anglia (via Brazil and Senegal and Morocco) was taken and dated on the photo itself, Sept ‘44. So it’s patently impossible (I had to explain to my BIL) that Dad participated in the June 6, ‘44 D-day activities. Five years after his death I found and transcribed his diary and realized that during the period of Dec ‘44 - Jan ‘45 he did fly a dozen combat missions. This is the period known as the “Battle of the Bulge” and his missions were in that area. I suspect that either Dad mis-spoke or Bil mis-heard what was said. (Dad’s DD-214 Form documented the facts which are in agreement with the diary.)
Despite the patient’s story reflected to Iowa above,... It’s highly unlikely any American flew 50 actual combat bombing missions, although certain specialized and re=position/training missions would certainly be possible. (Dad’s logbook recorded 8 flights which were not contributed to his combat -record as they were “familiarization, navigation, and in-country identification” flights. Photographic/reconnaissance and some other missions were so specialized that those crews were not exempted from service by numbers of sorties. Dad’s pilot, co-pilot, navigator and radio-operator flew more “missions” than he did... but they were not “combat” missions. They flew some “supply” missions ferrying gasoline across the channel and food into Belgium on relief missions. Those were volunteer flights, not deemed “combat” and were not fully-crewed since 5 of them were gunners, bombardier/toggleier crewmen and were neither necessary nor included. At the end of hostilities a number of “sightseeing tours” were flown which may have been “counted” by the crews but were not officially-credited as assigned missions. Dad’s crew took their ground-support team on a sight-seeing tour after VE-day so they might view the results of their efforts and his diary recorded the bombed-out towns and factories that resulted.
Fifty “flights” or flight-assignments I can easily imagine for the average crew, but 50 official combat missions would be unlikely. Still, it’s an honorable service they risked and even “training and familiarization” flights were highly-dangerous. The diary remarked on several fatal crashes that occurred which did not involve any combat mission the crews of which he had “messed” (eaten meals) with only that same day. His comments reveal emotional ties to those departed crews he’d trained with and were well-known.
It was a different time and a different kind of war than what we know today. They were “the greatest generation”.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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