Upgraded Battery Chargers

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MoonlightVFR
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:55 pm

Upgraded Battery Chargers

Post by MoonlightVFR »

Recently had to use battery charger.

I had purchased (2015) a new Concorde 12 V Battery and purchased their Aviation Specific Charger MOdel 12248.
the charger was SPECIFIC for the Concorde Battery. New and unsual specific Charger for Specific Battery.
Output is 13Vdc - 8Amps. It is a Charger - Maintainer - Desulfator -- CEC1 Modelsa - S5 Concorde S5 AGM.
Technology is changing.

Reason for this post is in reviewing Concorde web site . There is now a wider variety of Aviation Specific Chargers.
Many models. ONe charger does not work with all aviation lead acid batteries any more.

Puzzled, sounds like you could ruin a battery or burn up a Charger.

Afraid to use HF Smart charger on my Aircraft battery.
gradyb, '54 B N2890C
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ghostflyer
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Re: Upgraded Battery Chargers

Post by ghostflyer »

Well for the last 15 odd years I have used a TANDY branded battery charger. That’s how old it is . I have used it on numerous batteries , concord , and those pink things that I refuse to call a battery , and the list goes on. Never had any issues with batteries or the battery charger . If sulfurization is occurring ,it’s time for a new battery. My last battery lasted just over 7.5 yrs and the one I have in the aircraft is a little over 5 years . It’s the winter time that’s the issue with batteries. I do not let my alternator charge up my battery . My battery is on charge at least 6 hours a week . Regardless if I use the aircraft .
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Upgraded Battery Chargers

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

The Absorbed Glass Mat batteries (AGM) like the Concorde and others is not like the battery you found in your fathers Ford. It likes to be charged at different rates and is less tolerant to abusive charging. Fact is a your Dad's Fords Flooded Lead Acid battery is not the same as an aircraft FLA we bought 30 years ago because the aircraft FLA used electrolyte with a heavier specific gravity.

So while you could take any source of DC, 13 volts or higher, you could crudely charge any 12v battery no matter the construction. How well you manually adjust the charge amperage throughout the charge and when you stop charging will determine how well you've charged that battery. And this is where the fancy computer chip driven chargers come into play. They are programmed to charge the type of battery you select from it's menu in order for the charge (or discharge) to be correct.

If you must use a crude charger on AGM or FLA battery today it is best to use one that charges at a low low rate. Maybe 500 mah. This rate would take 24-36 hours to charge a discharged battery the size found in a 170, to nearly full. It is not likely to over charge the battery. But the best bet is to use a charger designed for the battery you are charging.
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Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
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GAHorn
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Re: Upgraded Battery Chargers

Post by GAHorn »

I think it is worthwhile to consider that batteries are DC storage systems. Their purpose (in aircraft) is not to start the engine. Their purpose is to provide an emergency-source of power when all on-board electrical-supply/generated systems fail. When your generator/alternator fails in-flight that battery exists in order to provide any necessary/required electrical-needs to get back onto the ground. The size/capacity/health of that battery will determine how much time one has to accomplish that task. And one of the MOST IMPORTANT pre-takeoff checks one should ADD to their pre-takeoff checklist is that the battery is NOW FULLY RE-CHARGED before taking off (especially into the dark or the clouds.). LOOK at your ammeter after engine-start! It should show a high-rate-of-charge, indicating your charging-system is properly-operational. LOOK at that ammeter before take-off... it should show a LOW or zero rate-of-charge indicating it has been recharged before flight. (Do this check with landing/taxi lights OFF.)
THINK about what you are doing when you find your battery low and incapable of starting...and when you hand-prop or jump-start your engine. Is that low-battery an indication you should not be launching into night or poor weather with a lousy battery or poor charging system?

In order for batteries to meet certification standards to be installed into aircraft they must accept the charging systems in those aircraft.

The OEM Cessna 170 charging system is a direct-copy of my grandfathers Chevy pickup, a Delco-Remy generator with a Delco-Remy vibrating-points regulator. This system does a fine job when working properly and aircraft batteries of any make/model must work properly with and not be damaged by that system in order to be approved for installation in the airplane.

The average/most-common usage of the batteries involves a period of storage, a heavy-discharge while an engine start is accomplished, and a re-charge of that battery by that Delco-Remy system, an hour or two of flight involving a “topping-charge” period of flight, followed by a shut-down of the system and another period of storage. The battery is purposefully designed for this service. It will serve several years reliably doing just fine with that OEM-design charging system.

No battery will last long if abused. Abuse would be letting that battery sit for months at a time with no activity... or being continuously connected to a maintenance-charger (MC) not designed for the battery. In my opinion, it would be better to NOT use a common lead-acid/automotive battery-charger as a maintenance-charger (MC). I’m certain that will dry-out/over-charge/damage and eventually destroy the battery. ANY battery. Including your grandfathers old Chevy’s lead-acid. Your aircraft battery is no different. And it makes no difference if it’s a Gill “pink-power” or a Concorde AGM, the result will be the same.

Both types battery will last longer, if connected to a maintenance-charger, if that MC has a long, slow, low-current provision that does not continuously and ignorantly keep trying to pump energy into that battery.

I don’t believe one has to pay high-prices for a simple task of sampling the current charge (pardon the pun) of a battery of WHATEVER type... and then gently bring that battery back to full charge... then shut down and monitor it again. I own a full dozen battery chargers. Three of them are common automotive types in the 10-20 Amp capacity-range. One is a a cheap Horrible-Fright “trickle=charger” that should NEVER be used as a MC. (I mostly use it for a small 12-14 volt power-supply for testing lamps, etc., but occasionally use it to re-charge other small batteries such as animal-feeders, etc.)

The chargers I use for maintenance-chargers are cheap, $10 Schumaker’s bought from WalMart. They are continuously kept connected to my Concorde AGM-equipped 170, 172, two boats, tractor, riding-mower, 2nd automobile and two spare lead-acid automotive batteries sitting over in the corner of the hangarI have no idea why I purchased. They keep all types of batteries in good health over the years without over-charging them and without “sulfation” issues. For $10. Model SC1299. I have six of them. They have kept my batteries in good condition for years, including my Concorde AGMs.
E46DCCAB-CF81-4F5D-85FE-EB701D062CE8.jpeg
E46DCCAB-CF81-4F5D-85FE-EB701D062CE8.jpeg (9.79 KiB) Viewed 12072 times
This charger is still sold for around $10 (despite the advertised online price) at WalMart. It has an LED indicator that “twinkles” when connected to power but not the battery, is on solid-green while charging the battery, is red when the leads are incorrectly connected to the battery, and is OFF when the battery is topped-off with a full-charge and is simply “monitoring” the battery during long-term disuse. I occasionally observe short, green, ON indications but most of the time the LED is OFF because the MC is only monitoring. They are a simple, effective method of keeping batteries on a maintenance-charge. Hope this helps.

Product Specifications
Battery Type: Standard AGM
Input Voltage: 120V AC
Input Current: 0.3A
Output Voltage: 12V
Output Current: 0.8A
Dimensions: 2.88 × 3.13 × 8.63 in
Weight: 0.7 lb
Safety Certifications: UL ULC
Warranty Period: 1 year
FOR MAINTAINING ALL POWER SPORT, CAR AND BOAT BATTERIES
Microprocessor controlled ─ automatically adjusts the amperage rate to charge and maintain
Multi-stage charging for added precision, safety and battery life
Float mode monitoring ─ automatically maintains optimum battery charge
Reverse hook-up protection ─ charger will not operate if clamps are reversed
Charging status LED indicator
Schu Eco Energy ─ meets the highest industry standards
DOE compliant
Contents: (1) SC1299 battery maintainer (1) battery clamp quick-connect (1) manual
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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ghostflyer
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Re: Upgraded Battery Chargers

Post by ghostflyer »

The issue of batteries is a very interesting one . What both Bruce and George said are very technically correct but where I live we do not have Walmart in this country and your mains voltage is very different from ours [250v ac] so battery charges are a difficult item to obtain especially the 28v ones that are reasonably priced . However another issue is it’s sort of legal to power a aircraft in my country with a “car” type battery. Eg odyssey , and a number of genuine Chinese high end batteries that last 12 months . Personally I run concord batteries as they seem to last . Concord batteries cost about $800 dollars for my aircraft . However I do see many aircraft that are fitted with car type batteries and I have seen in the USA a number of aircraft also fitted with car batteries . I do aircraft appraisals in the USA, Canada for clients in Australia and while doing inspections the number of car battery powered aircraft is very amusing. I was in SAN Antonio a couple of years ago and was looking at a near new Mooney and it had a car battery fitted . I asked the dealer about the battery and he said it was legal due to a FAA number etc . Mmm, I think the number quoted was for the size of the registration marks on the aircraft .
I will tell the story about that dealer at the next convention . It’s a good laugh .
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GAHorn
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Re: Upgraded Battery Chargers

Post by GAHorn »

I don’t dispute ghostflyer’s experiences. In fact, I’ve witnessed a number of aircraft running around with automotive/agricultural batteries. Our dear-departed bluEldr mentioned his favorite battery was a lawn-tractor unit. He had special approval basis. :lol:

But It’s NOT a good idea and there are good reasons.

Firstly, batteries for aircraft should (and are required) to conform to an approval basis by the authorities (In the U.S., the FAA.). They are either TSO’d, STC’d, or field-approved.

Aircraft batteries must meet certain designs that automotive batteries do not ordinarily need to meet. Examples are:

Vibration: Aircraft batteries are usually mounted on the firewall or baggage or other compartments and some inside the passenger cabin. A battery has hazardous electrolyte NO MATTER WHAT TYPE battery it is. An electrolyte leak due to a cracked case or damaged internal bulkhead is BAD JUJU in an airpalne. It causes fires, asphixiation, and corrosion all of which are expensive in variious ways some of which are deadly. Aircraft battery plates are heavier-duty, better supported internally, and better protected from warping due to discharge.

Baffling: A Hard landing, or other catastrophic event can compromise a battery to the point of deadliness also. Aircraft batteries hav internal protections form charge-plate-contact/shorts. Usually a membrane or a foam separator to prevent huge electrical-discharges from damage caused by physical damage as well as regular malfunctions.

Negative-G/misting: Aircraft batteries have vent systems which not only prevent cross-contamination of electrolyte not found in ordinary batteries, they also must not leak electrolyte when aerodynamic/weather causes the electrolytes to “float” to prevent expunging them to their compartments (which may contain electrical equipment or passengers or baggage, etc). Automotive type vents are completely inadequate in that regard.

Reserve-capacity rating system: Aircraft batteries are not intended for the same purposes as automotive types. An auto battery is rated for reserve cranking AMPs which is a very different purpose than a long-continuous-reserve production. As mentioned previously aircraft batteries perform a service very different and for which automotive batteries are never designed. Don’t skimp on your battery.

Lastly, physical design of terminals. If your automotive battery breaks loose in turbulence and the terminals short-out against the metal battery box of your airplane not only is there an instantaneous possibility of an electrical fire, but also of serious electrical-system damage and maybe even complete black-out accompanied by that fire I just mentioned. If turbulence or other rough handling causes an internal plate to separate, the electrical continuity of that circuit is interrupted. The open circuit removes the battery from it’s function as a capacitor or “shock-abosrber” for the electrical system. The alternator/generator can then over-current the system and cause damage to avionics and other equipment. At night or IFR that can be really serious and if VFR it can result in serious expenses at the least. Consider that when before you use a common automotive or lawn-tractor battery in the airplane. 2-cents.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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MoonlightVFR
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Re: Upgraded Battery Chargers

Post by MoonlightVFR »

Wow Wow Thanks all for comments -There is so much collective knowledge on the forum .

I am going to print out and place in clear Sheet protectors and build a binder for hanger reference. No PC in hanger.
gradyb, '54 B N2890C
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rickyricky2
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Re: Upgraded Battery Chargers

Post by rickyricky2 »

And when I install that Concord battery in my 1954 170 it is being charged with a 35 amp generator through a vibrating points regulator designed about 1930.

Dick Bryant
1954 170b
Now with an alternator
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MoonlightVFR
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Re: Upgraded Battery Chargers

Post by MoonlightVFR »

I hesitate to ever leave a Charger hooked up on a continuous basis to my Concorde AGM.

New smart chargers say it is OK but I don't accept the idea yet.

Am I being too fearful ?
gradyb, '54 B N2890C
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GAHorn
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Re: Upgraded Battery Chargers

Post by GAHorn »

MoonlightVFR wrote:I hesitate to ever leave a Charger hooked up on a continuous basis to my Concorde AGM.

New smart chargers say it is OK but I don't accept the idea yet.

Am I being too fearful ?
Not if you’re happy with your results!
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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