POLISHED ALUMINUM 1949 C-170A • $42,000???

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rcarson
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POLISHED ALUMINUM 1949 C-170A • $42,000???

Post by rcarson »

Hello All,

I am considering a C-170 purchase but am new to this type. As indicated in the title, there is an A model on Barnstormers at $42K. N9219A has had the same owner for 17.5 years. This plane has damage history as follows: Crashed in 1976 and rebuilt in 1991 with a gap in the logs during this time. I will ask the extent of the "crash" damage. Also a repair to minor damage to a wing and wheel in 2005 due to a "dust devil" while taxiing. I haven't seen the logbooks myself but the seller states that the "plane has been correctly repaired and clearly documented."

I am looking for the thoughts from the experience here on this forum for damage history possible concerns and the asking price? Does anyone personally know of this aircraft?

Thanks in advance for any feedback you provide.

Bob
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GAHorn
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Re: POLISHED ALUMINUM 1949 C-170A • $42,000???

Post by GAHorn »

Hello, Bob..and Welcome!

Damage which is properly repaired is not a negative matter, IMO. ...as long as the Quality of the repair is as least as high as original-construction by Cessna. The best damage repair will be virtually undetectable except through the aircraft records. If the aircraft records
are not complete, especially regarding the repairs, then significant loss of value exists. There are very very very few 170s which have absolutely NO "damage history" … but there possibly exists many which have un-recorded damage.

You ask for opinions on "value" and that is like asking for marriage advice regarding someone we don't know. (If we DID know her/him it would also be unlikely we'd post our opinions of them on-line.) :wink:

At any rate, the value is based entirely upon condition, maintenance records, location, flight and engine times (TSMOH) and installed equipment. Without your listing the details of such things (for example, you didn't mention the engine...is it worn out? New, Factory Remanufactured, Converted? etc etc) then there's no way possible to provide you with an opinion without visiting the site you mentioned, and not everyone visits that site or might not find the specific aircraft listing (you didn't provide a registration/serial number... even tho' I realize it's doubtful many A-models will be found there listed as "polished for sale at $42K). Nonetheless it's still difficult to evaluate an airplane when all one is likely to find there is the seller putting it's best foot forward.

Bottom line: You are going to have to inspect it personally or have it inspected by someone whose judgement you trust to place a value on it. Reading an advertisement will provide no more info for the reader than it does to yourself. (I once tried to help a friend buy a 170 in Georgia and called another friend who went to the airport and investigated it. The friend I called was a police officer and I therefore "assumed" he could investigate. He visited the airplane in the hangar, he talked to other pilots who knew the plane, he talked to the FBO who serviced it. He looked the airplane over and reported back, "It's a pretty airplane. Looks like new paint. Everyone says it's a great airplane."
I recommended to my purchasing-friend that we fly over to Georgia and give it a full inspection in-person.

It was pure junk! It was bright red (I'm standing-by for my goofy fellow-members here to ridicule me on that) :lol: .... but it appeared to have been painted with Sears Latex using a roller! The spark plugs were rusted into the cylinders so badly that it looked hazardous to attempt to even remove them! The radios had faces/legends which were unreadable and with corroded aluminum knobs. The interior had common household upholstery fabric. While the records appeared to be complete since manufacture.... they were "skimpy" at best and clearly avoided any mention of 50 years of useage/repairs. That trip was a complete waste of $1K of travel and hotel expenses, and I felt very embarrassed that I'd allowed...encouraged even.... my purchasing-friend to go look at it.


This airplane YOU are considering might very well be a great deal. There's no way, IMO, to evaluate it at such distance.

If you do consider it further, before purchase I'd recommend a full annual inspection as a pre-buy activity.
Hope this helps.

PS: I did find the advert. I'll say this: That looks to be an "odd" instrument panel from a 120/140 airplane and not what I'm familiar with as an "A" model. Look for records on that instrument panel re-design.
It appears to have a "lightweight starter" and an electric oil-sump heater installed. The engine time is relatively low, and could be a good sign depending upon recency and quality/reputation of the last repair/overhaul.
I'm not personally in favor of the 180/185 gear-leg mod on 170s that don't have larger/heavier engines but if you want to operate in the "bush" or off-airport it might have advantages. (Look for landing gear repair records in addition to that Pponk mod which I consider a plus.) The airplane likely has a history of such useage, so look for tailwheel bracket cracking on, and in the area of, that early-style small, steel tailwheel bracket. Hope this helps a bit.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
rcarson
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:34 pm

Re: POLISHED ALUMINUM 1949 C-170A • $42,000???

Post by rcarson »

Thank you for your feedback. I do understand that many factors have to be taken in to consideration.

Continental O-300, 145 HP, Annual Inspection Completed May 1, 2018, TIS 3820, TSOH 396, P-Ponk Beef Up Landing Gear Kit, C-180 Landing Gear, Scott Tailwheel, 4-Place Intercom, Aera 500 GPS And Fixed Mount, BAS Harnesses.

A pre buy inspection is a must after I look at it in person. I am just trying to get a feel for it before spending the time and the expense of travelling from Dallas to Colorado springs to look at it.

I appreciate your input.
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MoonlightVFR
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Re: POLISHED ALUMINUM 1949 C-170A • $42,000???

Post by MoonlightVFR »

How long has the current owner possessed the airplane? Has it been flown regualrly for the last several years?

How many of the significant upgrades has current owner participated?

Some one has really loved this airplane in the past. Could you be the next?

Welcome to the C170 world.
gradyb, '54 B N2890C
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Ryan Smith
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Re: POLISHED ALUMINUM 1949 C-170A • $42,000???

Post by Ryan Smith »

That airplane has an early 120/140 panel in it.

Already, that’s suspect.
rcarson
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Re: POLISHED ALUMINUM 1949 C-170A • $42,000???

Post by rcarson »

I appreciate all of your inputs.

I have learned that plane was damaged in a nose over in 76 and the repairs, done 15 years later, are not documented in the log books. It has been owned by the same person for 17 years and I talked to the AP/IA that has been involved with the plane for the past 12 years. Although the plane is "airworthy" I feel the resale would be difficult and affect the price significantly. With that, unless the price comes down about 15%, I think I will pass.

Maybe I will look at a C-140A. Seems that my budget of about $47K, may be too little for a decent 170.
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c170b53
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Re: POLISHED ALUMINUM 1949 C-170A • $42,000???

Post by c170b53 »

No, I think you have it right. 45 K should do it but understand it won’t come to you. Search every day, talk to people and become knowledgeable. A nut bar such as myself searches on every conceivable classified medium out there, every day. I’ve followed airplanes as they pass through owners, sometimes I even know more about a plane than the present owner knows. So make that kind of effort. That may sound weird, sounds weird to me but it takes time to find a good one, longer to find the right one and sometimes it might even fall into your lap. Oshkosh and for that matter any large flyin is an opportunity to get close to the type of airplane you want and more importantly they are a chance to talk to owners. Start visiting airports, walk the hangers and check the pilot lounge post boards. The challenge is you want to be nearby or get near when someone decides it’s time to sell. Them be ready to act if you see the right one, if it’s right don’t mess around.
Jim McIntosh..
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
rcarson
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Re: POLISHED ALUMINUM 1949 C-170A • $42,000???

Post by rcarson »

Thanks Jim!
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Ryan Smith
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Re: POLISHED ALUMINUM 1949 C-170A • $42,000???

Post by Ryan Smith »

Richard Pulley has a great story about finding a 195. Looking for one for years, found his perfect airplane almost in his backyard. I hate to say that folks are asking too much money for airplnes for fear of being accused of destroying resale values, but your budget should buy a cherry B model and an even better A model. I know of a gorgeous A model coming for sale in Texas soon.
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GAHorn
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Re: POLISHED ALUMINUM 1949 C-170A • $42,000???

Post by GAHorn »

rcarson wrote:I appreciate all of your inputs.

I have learned that plane was damaged in a nose over in 76 and the repairs, done 15 years later, are not documented in the log books. It has been owned by the same person for 17 years and I talked to the AP/IA that has been involved with the plane for the past 12 years. Although the plane is "airworthy" I feel the resale would be difficult and affect the price significantly. With that, unless the price comes down about 15%, I think I will pass.

Maybe I will look at a C-140A. Seems that my budget of about $47K, may be too little for a decent 170.
That's a real curious story...
...makes me wonder how an AP/IA could be "involved" with it for 12 years and yet...the repairs done back around 1991 are still "not documented". If it's truly "airworthy" that means it's got current inspection status which would require (in the minimum) a Form 337 documenting repairs that have been "found" and certification that those repairs are proper. There has to be a lot more to the airplane's story. (Did Gene Wilder and Terri Gar have anything to do with this..??) :lol:
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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