Charged to look at a 170 by broker

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Jtramo
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:38 am

Charged to look at a 170 by broker

Post by Jtramo »

Just wondering if this is customary, but after seeing a C170 for sale the broker sent me an invoice for nearly $400 for oil analysis, compression check and a charge for .5 of flight time. I told them not to do the tests on my behalf in very clear terms. The broker replied that they had to do it anyway for whomever is looking at the aircraft so he was going to have the shop do it anyway. When questioned they agreed to drop the service portion and stated that test flights dont normally happen until a deposit is made.

I worked at an FBO for over 5 years that brokered aircraft and was an authorized dealer for 3 brands (was in Piper sales myself for just under a year) and I NEVER heard of anyone being charged to look at or test fly an aircraft. Is this something I just never knew was customary? I'm pretty sure this isnt a thing.

So far they agreed to drop the work order items but have doubled the "labor" rate for invoice #2 to over $200 just for showing me the aircraft. This after being promised complete logs but finding no engine logs for 1978-2002.
Hineywheel Bill
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Re: Charged to look at a 170 by broker

Post by Hineywheel Bill »

I know what I would tell them, but I can't say it here as it would not be polite.
Owner of:
1954 C170B N1921C S/N 26066
Former owner of:
1948 C170 N3815V
1951 C170A N1490D
1946 C140 N76447
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Charged to look at a 170 by broker

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

I'd go with Hineywheel Bill on this one. And I'd probably make sure to tell them you'll be passing their charges on to the folks on the forum so we all know whether we're getting a good deal at another broker or not.
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ghostflyer
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Re: Charged to look at a 170 by broker

Post by ghostflyer »

This sounds like a scam, never heard of it in all the years I have been in the industry . Did they give you a beer ? I too would be very impolite. It shows how interested they in in selling the aircraft. Please advise the members who or where this company so we can say it’s too far to travel to look at there products .
Jtramo
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Re: Charged to look at a 170 by broker

Post by Jtramo »

Well I can at least say don't pay anyone to see a plane. I thought it was a crazy thing to do. The cost incurred showing a plane is between its current owner and the broker. Apparently the search for a nice 170 is gonna be challenging!
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DaveF
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Re: Charged to look at a 170 by broker

Post by DaveF »

Never heard of such a thing. Who's the broker?
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pdb
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Re: Charged to look at a 170 by broker

Post by pdb »

Hmmm...If they disclosed upfront that they were going to charge you, it’s your fault. But I would still regard that policy as unreasonable.

If they didn’t, I would tell them to take a hike.

I agree that you ought to disclose the name and location of the broker. That guy is not doing owners, buyers, or the industry any favors.
Pete Brown
Anchorage, Alaska
N4563C 1953 170B
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2366/2527 ... 4e43_b.jpg
strangebird
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Re: Charged to look at a 170 by broker

Post by strangebird »

I would not pay them a dime and tell them where to go.

You had no contract with the broker and the shop the broker enlisted the shop it is his $ to pay them.

If the shop or the broker pursue you tell him you will file a complaint with the AG office,of that state.

You have no worries and now we know why no one likes aircraft brokers

Case in point, my wife was learning to fly so I and a friend who just got his Private bought a C -152 for my wife to learn in and the partner to build some time with the idea of selling it when my wife was finished.

We put the plane up for sale and get a call almost right away, two guys show up, one looked like he just got up and had this I just snorted a few lines
of coke glassy eyed fidgety look to him, and never really said who he was, the other guy was ok, so we do the deal and sell the plane, negotiated the price , $ transferred and then find out later on the fidgety dude was really a broker that has the buyer on the hook to find him a 152, he got a grand for showing up from the buyer, the buyer had never met this dude before the moment of showing up, this broker just came to get the money, what a scam.

The moment that I saw that guy I said ,this is trouble, Lesson learned, ask who is who, if more than one person shows up.
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GAHorn
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Re: Charged to look at a 170 by broker

Post by GAHorn »

I once looked at what I'd seen in a brokerage-advertisement and gave a call to the posted number. It was the broker, who said he was busy at the time I had suggested to meet... and gave me the combination-lock-code to enter the property and look it over. When I did so, I saw what name was on the registration certificate and Googled and called the seller directly to ask some pertinent questions the broker could/would not answer. The seller was real-surprised when I told him that I'd been given permission and the combination from the absent-broker....because that was why he employed a broker... to show/demonstrate it and prevent "tire kickers" from being on the sellers property.
When it came time to negotiate the sale, the seller wanted me to "split" the brokers-fee with him. I asked him why he felt obligated to pay a broker who was too busy to meet/demonstrate and never even showed up to assist in any way. It was that insistence upon me paying half the broker's fee is the straw that broke the deal. I didn't feel it was my expense to pay.
I wouldn't pay this thread's subject-broker either, IMO.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
Jtramo
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Re: Charged to look at a 170 by broker

Post by Jtramo »

So within an hour of posting here they called back saying they magically had a full price buyer (sight unseen) and wanted to give me first right of refusal. They also would drop the charges.

I don’t want to get in keyboard war or slander charge war with anyone since the guy knows someone here and has access to this board. In summary, just don’t pay to see or demo a plane and def don’t go buying any 170s from a broker especially sight unseen this week folks. This one was claimed to have had recent corrosion repairs, several 10k plus annuals and full logs/no damage.

In my humble opinion as a non A&P with 2yrs of A&P apprentice work....I found:

Visible corrosion on the exterior and gear plus evidence of green/black mold on the skin from sitting unused for extended periods.
No evidence of expensive work done besides work on the tailwheel structure
No engine logs from 78-2002 and OH was supposedly from 94.
Repair of wingtip with unspecified cause of damage
Borescope showed corrosion and extreme carbon buildups. Possible crack between valves
Ailerons that you needed to be a weight lifter to move
Rattle can paint job on engine and firewall complete with overspray
Touch up of supposed 7/10 paint job throughout airframe to cover corrosion. Paint was more like a 2/10 with 7/10 of the plane having paint at all.
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Charged to look at a 170 by broker

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

Jtramo wrote:I don’t want to get in keyboard war or slander charge war with anyone since the guy knows someone here and has access to this board.
How'd you get so smart?
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

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brian.olson
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Re: Charged to look at a 170 by broker

Post by brian.olson »

Just a heads-up that a 1954 170B just showed up for sale on Barnstormers ...
Brian
1950 170A
N5762C s/n 19716
Jtramo
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Re: Charged to look at a 170 by broker

Post by Jtramo »

Thanks Brian! I had just checked two hours ago so it’s fresh hahaha
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GAHorn
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Re: Charged to look at a 170 by broker

Post by GAHorn »

Jtramo wrote:...No engine logs from 78-2002 and OH was supposedly from 94.
....
Well, all the rest of the issues are enough to lose interest...but just a heads up... Missing engine logs might not mean much if the present engine was installed subsequently. The logs go with the engine... so an engine that is removed will keep its logs with it....and an engine that's installed should have logs from at the very least the last overhaul or remanufacture, and should reflect/report the Total Time and the SMOH (and hopefully a detailed overhaul report.)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
Jtramo
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:38 am

Re: Charged to look at a 170 by broker

Post by Jtramo »

It’s missing the logs for the current engine that was installed and or overhauled in 94. Bad deal!’
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