Wish I woulda ...

[gobrien]

Hi all,

I have my 48 ragwing opened up, wings off, interior out, engine off, panel coming out.

Looking back on the upgrades, mods and changes you made or wish you had, I would love to hear suggestions for what I should do while she is in this state.

Note: The aircraft is in Ireland and will be on a Permit to Fly rather than the 170 CofA. This is almost like experimental in the USA but with less latitude. Basically I can do anything for which an STC exists (don't actually have to have the STC) also anything that I can demonstrate has been done on 337s, especially if it's a common mod. I can also use non-certified avionics and of course do the work myself overseen by an inspector from ILAS (http://www.ilas.ie).

Looking forward to learning from your experience ...

Gareth

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Gareth, what is your goal? How will you use the 170?

The early 170s, up to at least '52 did not have good heat. I don't know how cold it gets in Ireland but adding heat ducts similar to the '54 is a good idea unless you live in a hot dessert.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

The '48 fuel lines run down the front door posts rather that the back door post like the A and b model. The fuel lines are also smaller. This all added up to the '48 requiring a fuel pump. Not a big deal if you have one and the associated one way valve. You might consider rerouting larger lines down the rear door post like the later A and B. And if you don't have 4 tanks, now is the time to add that 4th tank if you can find one.

[c170b53]

Swami Bruce sez

Gareth, what is your goal? How will you use the 170?

As usual that’s Gold, take it to the bank.

[n2582d]

Gareth,
I think one modification we can all agree on is shoulder harnesses. Does you plane already have them? If not, lots written about installing them here. This is one mod where you don't want to say "wish I woulda" after an accident.

[gobrien]

Gareth,
I think one modification we can all agree on is shoulder harnesses. Does you plane already have them? If not, lots written about installing them here. This is one mod where you don't want to say "wish I woulda" after an accident.

Hey Gary,

Shoulder harnesses were installed at some stage. However, I have not seen the particular method of anchor point installation described anywhere:

Replacing this is already on the list!

Gareth.

[gobrien]

Gareth, what is your goal? How will you use the 170?

The early 170s, up to at least '52 did not have good heat. I don't know how cold it gets in Ireland but adding heat ducts similar to the '54 is a good idea unless you live in a hot dessert.

Hey Bruce,

Purpose: Pure runabout for me, my brother and brother-in-law ... VFR day (because permit (experimental) aircraft here are restricted), build my hours - just finishing PPL, later teach the kids to fly (10 y/o Girl Pilot in the making is earning her flight hours in the hangar).

I'm looking hard at the heating mod (thank you) ... The 48 parts manual shows 2 setups for heat and this is the earlier one = no heat at all in the back!

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Gareth, yes the '48 (and up to '52) had two heat options. Standard was a 2" round duct that enters the cabin above the pilots left foot. Does a great job cooking the pilots left toes and heating the back of the instruments. That's it. An option lessor seen, but I have in my A model, runs the heat up the center console past the flap handle. There are two versions of this. I can say the optional heat is slightly better than the standard in distributing the heat but it does nothing to increase the volume. It is a real pain to install and then in the way if you have to maintain anything in the tunnel.

I would study the '54 system. It starts with a "3 intake and passed over the right muffler and into a valve on the right firewall. There is a plenum on the inside of the fire wall that distributes the heat about the cabin. The "3 intake means more hot air and it is distributed better.

[brianm]

I think most 170s have been upgraded already, but if you don't have them, definitely go with Cleveland wheels and brakes on the mains and the later model tailwheel bracket and Scott 3200 tailwheel. You already mentioned shoulder harnesses, also consider some sort of stop to prevent the seat from sliding back on the rails. Cessna makes an inertia-reel type that is (was?) free, or there are aftermarket options.

My cowl latches were in pretty bad shape so last annual I installed the Dip Davis cowl latch STC. I am extremely satisfied with it. It's inexpensive as far as STCs go, and it sounds like under your regulations you could fabricate it yourself for a few dollars worth of materials.

I have a whole list of stuff that it isn't worth taking the airplane apart for, but that I want to do eventually:
- "One-piece" windscreen and maybe a V brace
- Convert from fuses to circuit breakers
- Late model cabin heat
- Remove hat shelf
- BAS tail pull handle

[cessna170bdriver]

Tail pull handles are a good idea while you have easier access to the inside of the aft fuselage.

Door Stewards are nice, but can easily be installed in a flying airplane.

I personally never had a problem with the mechanical parking brake, but I think the vast majority have been removed from 170s due to possible inadvertent setting in flight. If you ever have to park on an incline and are solo, a parking brake of some kind will come in handy. Both Paul Wood and I had Mountain Airframe install hydraulic parking brakes during airframe rebuilds. Paul Wood or Del Lehmann can correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe they were installed on a logbook entry as a minor modification. It’s my second favorite upgrade next to the baggage door.

Oh, yeah, you’ll never regret installing a baggage door.

[gobrien]

Thanks all ... This is really helpful.

- Cabin Heat - I'm going to fabricate the parts and install this. Anyone got a 337 or STC or even photos of this in a 170 ragwing (or even an A)?
- "One-piece" windscreen - someone did this already, phew!
- and maybe a V brace - The Atlee Dodge stuff specifes 170A and B, 180 etc. Has anyone added this in a ragwing?
- Convert from fuses to circuit breakers - Piano keys and switch assembly fully disassembled, cleaning tomorrow. Redoing the entire wiring harness top to bottom. I'm thinking 100% kilxon indicating breakers. Thoughts?
- Remove hat shelf - hat what? Long gone it seems!
- BAS tail pull handle - Some kind soul did it about 10 years ago! Yippee.
Wheels and brakes are done too.

- Door stewards - yes
- Fuel lines - very likely, doing research and have to onvince my inspector.

Please keep them coming. I had thought about improving the heat but your feedback has convinced me!

G.

[Kevin Pearce]

Gareth

Follow up on the Cessna inertia seat stop, it is FREE and could stop you ending up in the back seat during a climb.
Interior insulation and carpet kit seems a good idea in our part of the world. Mine is Selkirk.

Kevin

[gobrien]

Hi Kevin,

Is this thing what you mean? This was installed but NOT attached anywhere which I'm thinking made it marginally less useful!

The rails were replaced some years ago and look like the C172 ones in the school planes I've been flying.

I'm planning to go overboard on the insulation and do the heater upgrade including windscreen defroster. I have taxied out at Weston (EIDW) while struggling to peer through fogged up windows on several occasions. The how to soundproof booklet (https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... dproof.pdf) has a lot of interesting info (and should help thermally). Has anyone tried the aluminium foil sandwiched between 2 layers of closed cell foam? We were hoping to resuscitate the existing interior panels (wool covered hardboard) but the stains are just becoming more obvious with cleaning so that may end up replaced.

The problem with having it stripped out is i keep thinking "we might as well do XXX while it's open" and the list is growing!

Gareth.

[ghostflyer]

The doubled layered aluminium coated foam is very good but it comes in different grades. We have that foam in our shop but it also has a layer of heavy material in the core for extra absorption of sound . However when removing the old “wool” insulation use a dust mask and check for corrosion where it has been adhered to the aluminium.

[gobrien]

The doubled layered aluminium coated foam is very good but it comes in different grades. We have that foam in our shop but it also has a layer of heavy material in the core for extra absorption of sound . However when removing the old “wool” insulation use a dust mask and check for corrosion where it has been adhered to the aluminium.

That's good to hear. I do like the double layer idea. Fortunately the wool insulation is already gone, there was some of the quilted reflecting stuff you typically see inside someone's windshield on a sunny day! That was only stuck on in a couple of places, mostly just loose behind the panels. I don't think it was doing much.