170 Project Net Worth

[acrocapt]

I have a 54 170B I have been restoring for quite a while. I want to buy out my partner who inherited it from her Dad but is not interested in hanging on to it. Problem is we can't seem to agree on what it is actually worth. Here's the basics. The restoration is 80-85% done. Things that need to be done: Cowling painted, ailerons and flaps installed, all controls rigged, install complete interior, install all glass, install prop, rig landing gear, install seat belts and shoulder harnesses, paint final trim color, install ADS-B and ELT, and lots of detail items. All airframe components are in excellent shape with no corrosion. The engine has not been run since 1989. It is 50 years old with 650 hours. Although a borescope shows no rust in the cylinders and there is no rust on any of the accessory gears, I am sure the engine will have to be rebuilt. Now the big question. I know it's hard to put a value on it without seeing it, but does anybody want to give an opinion on what it may be worth as is? Insurance will insure it for $15000. Any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks.

[GAHorn]

You might take the "blue book" value as if it were a flying airplane, then deduct the items needing completion as if defects during a pre-purchase/annual inspection and go from there. (Alternatively you might look at Trade A Plane's valuation software, it's free on their site. It generally OVER-values airplanes however because they're soliciting listings.)
(The engine is a BIG issue and should be considered questionable. It may need overhaul … in fact it DOES NEED OVERHAUL ACCORDING TO CONTINENTAL because of it's chronological age. I'd personally give it the value of a "core"...not more than $5K.) The Avionics installation alone will cost you $10K minimum if it has no radios, so that's another huge deduct from blue book.

My copy of blue book states the average RETAIL is $24K and Avg wholesale is $18,500. I think the ins. co. may be right on the mark. So, your partner's half is worth about $7500 and that does not consider you have invested a lot of time/effort into it already... so what was THAT worth? (I suggest that you were doing that work which increased it's value for the benefit of your partner otherwise it'd be worth even less than the $15K. Tough for you, but that's the way to look at it, you can't charge her for work you did to improve the airplane of which she was half owner. (IE, you increased the value of her portion of the partnership as much as you did your own.) That's something you're likely to simply consider as a donation.

Bottom line (in my opinion) I'd offer $7500 and if that's unacceptable suggest she either buy YOU out, or obtain a bona fide offer for it and pay her half of that offer if it meets your budget. An arms-length buyer might prove to be the best appraisal you'll get anyway. (This one is worth what you paid for it.)

[c170b53]

I’ll kick it off ( oops George beat me to it) .. Seeing that the plane has sentimental value, for one of the owners it might make things tough to see what the plane is, from what it was. The fuselage is not painted and just needs new trim paint? Probably worth more like 25000 if you have a good interior to go in and there’s basic avionics, value really depends on the quality of the work done. Might as well see how the engine does as is before pulling it for a tear down but it’s an unknown. I would do the things required to get it flying, then install the interior and avionics, that’s winter work, don’t miss another summer.

[DaveF]

All those things you list as "install" (interior, glass, belts, ADSB, prop, etc.) -- does that mean you have them and they need to be installed? Or still need to be purchased?

[ghostflyer]

This can be a very troublesome area, as you have all the “experts” that will be giving her advice. Some of the experts will be friends, family member or work colleagues. Plus there is the emotional ties that it was her fathers aircraft.
So one way around the situation is what did you pay for your half originally? Did you factor in the facts that George mentioned in his reply when you purchased your half. Plus you must research and research the classifieds and try to talk to her with your research supporting your offer . Your research must show true value so all parties feel it’s a win -win situation for all parties. Ask how was the sale figure of her half was calculated. Some times calling in a “INDEPENDANT” person making the call of value can be of assistance.
Another deal sweeter is make a offer of free time flying in the aircraft for a number of hours or time and they pay their own fuel . Make sure that goes in the contract.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

This is tough. Fact is you can not do as much work to a 170 as you are doing and only have what it's worth into it. Just because you invested $60K in buying and work doesn't mean it's worth 60K.

It seems, the plane wasn't worth much when you started. If your adding up cost and comparing to the value of average 170s of the same condition this would be when finished, you started with a project that was worth nothing. But of course we know it must be worth something.

It is true that engine might run another 1500 hrs with no issues out of the ordinary. But it is unlikely you'll find any one who would put money on it. It is basically a core. Overhaul, depending on what you call an overhaul, and condition you find the engine parts, at a minimum with be $15K doing ALL the work yourself. It will be $25k if you have someone else do it. That alone is half or better the value of most 170s.

I think the insurance company has it right. All your parts your likely to be able to sell, as is, with lots of effort, could net $15k. $10k is a better more realistic number though.

[daedaluscan]

I agree with Bruce, I think its value would be that of a like 170 after you have done allthe work. Sounds like a lot more than 15% to me (90% done, 90% to go).

I think your problem is getting your partner from perceived value to realistic market value in their mind.

I mean we own aeroplanes - we are all super wealthy right?

The real value is what someone would actually pay for it, but any potential buyer would put a lot of effort into deciding to make an offer for all the reasons posted above.

[c170b53]

It’s Saturday and a notoriously slow day on the boards so let me take a gratuitous opportunity to be argumentative
I’d slap down 15k on this sight unseen, but where is it? Distance of the tow is what has stopped me before. I can’t quite remember what Pete Coffey was asking for Cleo’s plane I thought it was around 20k. It looked and sounded much like this aircraft but as it was in deep Texas I felt it was a bit too far away for me to go and snag it. Missed opportunity.
My thinking here, take each flight control x 500 = 4000, take engine FWF core = 5000, wings ea 4000, gear wheels brakes lady legs , 2500, Hull 4000. Interior gauges 1500.
Ok, remember it’s Saturday so go ahead and light me up

[Mapleflt]

Sold, send us a picture when you pick it up !!!!!!!!

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Jim, I think you should split your values in half and be more realistic. What you listed is the price you'd like to sell them for once you got it home. Cutting the prices in half gives you a 25% better chance of actually selling them.

[c170b53]

Bruce, Maybe so, I’m often off the mark.
I’m approaching this from what I feel comfortable with, maybe my simplistic slant is flawed but... If you need something for your plane today, it’s today’s price, not much is going down especially when the alternatives can be very pricey. Our machines can go coast to coast, replacements won’t come anywhere close to 30k. In my case, I was more than happy to pay 600 for a complete rudder two years ago. Getting a spare flight control that can be bolted on saves time and money. If the control needs to be rebuilt then labour and parts In repairing would likely have cost more. Bonus , now I have a core spare. I’m presently keeping my eyes on the lookout for a spare elevators .
Possibly if an owner hasn’t had a need lately for parts maybe they are not tuned into what things go for! In my breakdown I never mentioned the specifics, ie cowlings. Anyone seen a set for under 1000 lately if at all ?. Does this machine have a float kit? This gentleman suggests this is a resto on his hands, not a wreck. I look at wrecks and break them down and 10K often is the floor.
Where this all gets dicey is if the machine has been totally neglected. That especially significant if the plane has been left to the elements. That’s a different bid.
What I am perplexed on in this specific case is the glass is not installed, yet the poster suggests that this plane is almost done. Glass often is installed after the sheet metal is done. For me this suggests there’s much more to the flow of this rebuild and to this story.

[c170b53]

Here's one looking for the "Del" treatment https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-other/fred ... nFlag=true

[acrocapt]

Also, there is one radio and a transponder installed. The ADS-B, seat belts, and ELT have not.

[acrocapt]

Looks like my post didn't come through. To answer some of the questions, the aircraft is painted except for the cowling and spinner. Most of the items needed to be installed have been purchased (interior, glass, etc.). One radio and a transponder are installed except for antennas. ADS-B equipment and seat belts need to be purchased. I realize the engine is a core. I was figuring the worth was about what the insurance company was using ($15000). Sounds like that is probably not far off the mark. I know we'll never get back what has been put in to the project (with more to come). That's the nature of projects. Just trying to make sure whatever we decide it's fair for both parties. Thanks for all the feedback. It helps.

[Macunix]

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